brown shogun classic: 2021-2023

Nightgame
Thu 7/14: ~50 "collisions", 7-9 approaches
Fri 7/15: ~20 "collisions", 7 approaches
Sat 7/16: ~8 approaches

I've been posting session anxiety/whining notes in my Telegram channel: https://t.me/+gUWGmTw2s89mOGU5

I'll report on these three sessions collectively as one experience. And I would appreciate if anyone experienced with nightgame can give me some feedback on certain thoughts or call me out on any bs.

So I don't think it's a good idea to be just walking around a venue like a "hunter". Seems like it already puts you as worse off than every other guy. It's different from daygame in that at a daygame venue, people are just walking around minding their own business. For nightgame, everyone is having fun, so therefore, bare minimum , you need to be having fun as well.

Collision strategy
I had done things before like fistbumping/cheersing/saying eyyyy whats up to everyone . Regardless of age/gender/bf+gf/whatever. This has helped me build up social momentum and good mood and has even turned into "approaches" before.

So on Thursday, I decided "I'm going to try to 'collide' with 50 people, make my 'presence' known to them". This helped eliminate the "hunter" effect, as I was now just pleasantly fistbumping and saying hi to everyone I ran into. And some of the fistbumps turned into longer conversations I could consider "approaches", and I even got an Instagram exchange out of it.

The problem with this strategy is that when I did get the occasional rejection, I took it very negatively. As in "only an absolutely rude and vile person would reject a god damn fistbump. at least you can unenthusiastically fistbump". At least with an approach rejection, it doesn't affect me as much because even if she is rude about the rejection, it's like okay I did do a direct approach so fair enough.

One girl had rejected my fistbump and gave me a "weird" stare, so I grabbed her arm and smashed her fist into mine. And then she punched me in the shoulder. I got a huge rush out of this. I had also socked another girl in the shoulder for doing something similar on the street. And then it turned my positive momentum into negative momentum, as in I was just focusing on the 1/~25 chance I would get a "harsh" rejection and then want to punch the girl in the face or something, and I knew I was also getting off to the idea too.

So I decided to stop this strategy. While I think it can be a good quick social momentum booster to randomly say hi, fistbump, and cheers people, I don't think setting a "collision quota" is a good idea for me because I end up potentially even more angered and negative, and "wanting to punch girls in the face", which is not a good headspace to be in.

Setting approach quotas per venue
I devised a different strategy for making myself approach. I picked 5 venues and said I have to approach at least 1 girl in that venue. Then I can leave the venue.

This strategy proved to be more effective, as reducing the "surface area" of what I could approach prevented me from aimlessly wandering around Broadway, and feeling "locked inside" of the current venue I had to approach in incentivized me to approach.

So I'll do this strategy for the time being.

What nightgame boils down to for me
I'm going to use the stoplight analogy I used in this post: viewtopic.php?p=38320#p38320

green light - "receptive", touchy, asking about me, etc
yellow light - "neutral", open to being talked to, or danced with briefly, but nothing special. true "state" unknown
red light - "unreceptive". aggressive, facing away from you, moves to different part of venue, makes excuse to leave, etc

So I'm finding this is what nightgame boils down to for me:
1. stomaching and incurring all of the red lights and moving on
2. escalating on the green lights (logistics, physical)
3. figuring out how to "flip" yellow lights green or red without prematurely ejecting from the set while they're still yellow


I've found 1. to be something I can generally deal with alright. As in, it doesn't make my night miserable. And I have some experience already dealing with it from daygame (rejection is mileage, etc).


I think I'm not that bad at 2. either. It's how I was about to pull that cheerleader back to my place and get the lay in the first place.

But one problem I have here is I'm not able to find "green light" girls in the first place. And part of this comes down to that you have to be already enjoying yourself and having fun.

This isn't something I've found to be as necessary with daygame (yes, mood does matter, but I've found it much easier to get myself in a better mood from just approaching more girls in daygame). So the main thing here is probably not escalating itself, but acting in a way such that more girls will be green light to me.


3. is the point I struggle the most with. It's debatable whether it's even necessary, as you probably can just "approach more girls" to find more receptive/immediately "green light" girls and don't waste time on lukewarm sets.

But the point of "yellow light" is you're not really sure if they're receptive or not, and they could flip either direction depending on how you lead the interaction.

Just like how it can be good to "babystep escalation" (ie: like I did in California with taking girls to the mall park before asking to come to my car, which yielded more pulls, as opposed to directly trying to pull to my car from the mall), there's some path to "babystep the interaction" to the point where you can reveal whether the girl is actually green light (and will then follow along with your escalation), or she's red light and you can move on.

The problem is I get caught up in "platonic matter-of-fact conversation", and then girls have unilaterally rejected e.g. coming to dance with me, bouncing out of the venue. Maybe they'll give me their number but then they'll ghost. These interactions will go something like:

>some opener, could be direct, could be indirect
"where u from" / "u from nashville?" / <cold read her location>
>maybe tease about where she's from
"who u here with" / "u came with ur friends?"
>maybe tease idk
>inquire about plans
>i talk about myself maybe
"lets go dance" -> "no im good" / inquire about bouncing out of the venue or to a different place in the venue -> "no im good"

^ the above script is basically how most of these "yellow light" interactions go.

I think I can at least more initially polarize girls by not doing any indirect approaches. As in, either go for direct or roleplay. Then at least I can set some kind of male-female frame from the beginning. I don't really avoid doing direct approaches particularly, I kind of just say anything for the most part (although I tend to do direct approaches far more often on black girls). I keep avoiding doing roleplay ones (even though roleplay approach got me laid!!!!!!!!).


Next steps
Ultimately I have a long way to go for nightgame. And if I'm being honest, my current goal is literally just to get laid as much as possible. While I had that one very lucky 1st lay from a nightgame instapull, I don't think the cost-benefit ratio of going out is worth it for me right now. It's also taking away from doing "online sessions", which I think if I hustled as hard as Manganiello did, I can get some good results with it.

I did make a promise to go 12 nights this month, so I'll follow through with that and see if I can make more progress. But I think I need to babystep into this. Getting good at nightgame is an ultimate goal for me, as it requires me to become maximally comfortable in any social situation and be as charismatic as possible, and I've always been insecure about that. In fact, I'm not even going to leave Nashville until I get good at nightgame. If it takes me 5 years, I don't care.

But I think a more pressing goal for me is knowing I can get laid, from any means necessary, whenever I want. That's why @MakingAComeback 's bet with me to get a tattoo if I can get 20 lays (17 more at this time of writing) by the end of the year is a good thing to focus on, because it keeps me in line with getting my goal priorities straight. Also, I could be throwing in some daygame here and there as I have zero daygame AA (probably from all the nightgame grinding + being more comfortable in the bedroom now, I do occasional approaches at the grocery store, literally because I genuinely want to approach certain girls).

So with my current skills, online should be my main focus (I think I already knew that by saying I need to do 20 online sessions this month, and only 12 nightgame ones, even though I keep not doing online sessions). Once I know I can effectively get laid from online, I can focus on nightgame again, just to isolate that the bottleneck will be "social skills/having fun/being charismatic" (and not feeling desperate for sex itself).

Online
Boosted 3 times, messaged ~13 girls, ~10 new matches and ~3 continued convos and respawns. 2 contacts.

But I basically tailspinned on the date arranging for the 2 contacts. I won't post the entire logs but here's the last few messages I'd been sending to both girls
@september told me I'm asking too many questions and "asking for permission" rather than leading.

But additionally, I'm being too pushy with the date invites even after the girl expresses some disinterest/resistance to arranging a specific date without providing alternatives. As in, I'm too eager for the date. This was also a problem I had with many of my cold approach leads (and back then, I was doing almost soup texting).

Future photoshoot
Based on my current Tinder results, I'm getting some matches, numbers, and dates. But when I compare it to the results @Manganiello was getting last year, it's nowhere near enough volume. I have "decent" pictures. But I don't want "decent", I want the best possible .

So I've hired @MILFandCookies to take some pictures of me. I'll be flying into Austin (ahhh the memories) on August 5th and we'll do the shoot over the weekend.

Whether or not this gives me the "maximal" results I need, even at my WIP body, I'm fine with investing in this now. I don't want it to be e.g. December 21st where I'm at e.g. 7 lays wondering "what if I just did the photoshoot. I would have gotten my goals maybe" I can't handle the thought of failing because I was "asleep at the wheel". I'd rather fail doing everything I could have done and giving it as much effort as I could have.

So I'll be switching to a cutting diet and modify the 2700+ calories goal to "150g protein under 1800 calories". I won't be maximally shredded in 2-3 weeks, but it should be enough of a difference. And I wouldn't mind doing an additional photoshoot in say, October when I have even lower bodyfat.

I realized my biggest hurdle right now is spending all day shitposting in chats. It's not that I can't squeeze work in with dating, in fact I need to do minimal work to stay afloat. But take today for instance, I spent between 8:30am-3:00pm chatting on Discord instead of actually doing work. The actual work took me maybe 60-90 minutes. And I finally get to doing my online session at 11:00pm, which is way too late for optimal volume.

So I've uninstalled Discord from my phone. There's no reason it has to be on my phone, I only have it for my music connections, so that will stay on the computer. And I told myself I'm not allowed to partake in other group chats until I get certain tasks done (usually work, but I also include gym because sometimes my workouts take "so long" because I'm noodling around on my phone and resting for too long instead of focusing on the workout).

I'm using my private hustle chat to keep me accountable for the above, so this isn't just a self-reliant restriction. I have people watching.

Online
Wed 7/20: ~11:00pm. 3 boosts. 10 girls messaged, 3 new girls. 1 contact.
Thu 7/21: ~9:00pm. 3 boosts. 20 girls messaged. 15-18 new girls. 9 convos. 0 contacts. 2 dates arranged.

Date schedule
Sat 7/23 8pm
Sun 7/24 3pm

Hit record volume today. I think because I've been consistently using Tinder this week, my rating on the app has perhaps increased. I'm also noticing the girls I'm seeing to swipe and the girls matching me are getting a bit more attractive.

However, my contact conversion rate has taken a nosedive. Although I'm still in the middle of many convos so I could by all means get those numbers later, so I will just have to be patient. We can do a "stats analysis" when the month ends and see where my messaging should be improved.

This is going to be the 500th post in this thread and the 10000th post in the Progress logs section

(EDIT: i was too slow and @Adrizzle beat me viewtopic.php?p=39211#p39211 )

Been drinking like 2-3 GHOST energy drinks a day, which basically ended up turning into being as bad as vaping was for me. Decided to kick the habit and replace it with sparkling water. Had a crash day today (Saturday) so I didn't get an online session done (I didn't have enough brainpower to)

Date schedule
Sat 8pm - cancelled
Sun 3pm
Sun 8pm - cancelled
Mon 8pm
Tues 7pm

Online
Fri 7/22 :
boost 9:00pm, 9:30pm, 10:00pm.
messaged ~12 girls, 3 new girls.
3-5 numbers, 2 respawns.
3 dates arranged

Had a date cancel tonight and a date cancel for tomorrow night.

Also had this sus af convo I was told I should try to see it through anyway. but the fact it seems like she's trying to "pigeonhole" me into whatsapp specifically is sooo sus. nobody uses whatsapp in america hahahh. i can kind of see why you shouldn't go full autism on a girl regarding details/logistics.

Nightgame
Here's my current nightgame template after approval from some veterans in my group chats: The main reason I wrote this up is because while I can do "lots of approaches", I can't structure the conversation in such a way where I can get the girl to trust me enough to e.g. follow me around. Usually I "prematurely escalate" and get unilaterally rejected ("i think i'm good" "well it was nice meeting you!" etc) because I just had some dumbass platonic info-exchange conversation.

I didn't write anything past the "instadate" phase because I think I'm actually fine once I hit that point. As in, to even get there the girl had to already have trusted me enough, and I have enough experience with dates from online and daygame (and the nightgame lay I had). Also I have to be able to consistently get to that point in the first place lol.

Fri 7/22: 7 approaches, 1 instagram.
Goal for Friday was to get to "micro-isolate" phase on an approach. I somehow did that on my first approach. And the girl gave me a rose lol!!!!
Interaction details and session details are in my Telegram broadcast channel: https://t.me/+gUWGmTw2s89mOGU5
It's just easier for me to write my approach anxiety notes and detailed reports here in real time during the session, and it could potentially provide value for people and I could get feedback as well so it's public.

Sat 7/23: 10 approaches, 1 number
Here, I tried to just tell myself over and over "what would rags2bitches do, what would rags2bitches do" repeatedly and brainwash myself. I ended up doing 7 approaches in like 15 minutes and having some convos.

Then I got "high" off of the "euphoria" of feeling like I could approach normally and anyone like I could doing daygame. So I ended up just not approaching for another 30 minutes and enjoying sparkling water with lime. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dumb....

So I told myself to get to 20 approaches and go home. But now I wasn't as "excited" to approach and psyched myself out and did 0 in 10 minutes. So lowered it to 10 (i know, really lame) and managed to do 3 somewhat quickly. Last approach gave me her number.


I really want to get to the stage where I can "enthusiastically prance up" on girls like I did with daygame. It's just like, how are you supposed to focus on interaction quality if you can't even approach. So I'll focus on setting goals that encourage me to increase my nightgame volume until night approach is no big deal for me. Then I'll be able to rapidly progress with improving interaction quality.

Additionally, I am way too "scared" to try to do the roleplay approach that literally got me laid . You really have to own that kind of approach and it has to be ultra spontaneous. I think just normal direct approaches are more in my comfort zone (indirect is actually harder for me), but they're basically whatever.

But for now I think I just need to continue to hustle and get over my night AA before focusing on these specific interaction details. Feel free to let me know if there's a more effective strategy than what I've mentioned above.

Online
Had all 4 of my dates flake between Saturday and Monday, and a straight to crib attempt flake at the last minute as well. Combined with a date from the previous weekend flaking, it was a 6 date flake streak.

But thanks to my cold approach experience, I'm used to the concept of "mileage" and things coming in waves. As in, I had a magical first lay experience, amazing sex on my second lay (which was my second Tinder contact ever), and uhh..........sex on my 3rd lay (which was my first Tinder contact ever). I've seen how often @Manganiello was getting flaked on in his log, so it was inevitable to go from literal beginner's luck to being thrown into the grinder. Although this was nowhere as severe as my cold approach initial history (first two approaches ever, had two dates with each and then zero dates for another 250~300 approaches).

Sun 7/24 :
boost 4:30pm, 6:15pm, 8:15pm, 9:00pm, 10:00pm, 11:00pm.
messaged 17 girls, 14 new girls. 9 convos.
3 numbers, 1 snapchat.

Was going to have a date on Sunday afternoon, but got hit with a typical female excuse: I'm repeatedly receiving feedback that I'm coming off as desperate and pushy. I think it's basically a panic response and I resort to my old hyper-pushy behaviors instead of actually gauging the girl's "compliance" and messaging accordingly. But in this case, such a response is an obvious red light. Hopefully this is the last time I make this kind of literal noob mistake regarding being hyper-pushy on red lights. At this point, it's honestly embarrassing that I resort to coming off so "desperate".

Mon 7/25 :
2 dates arranged from existing leads, including the above snapchat.

boost 8:30pm, 9:30pm, 10:15pm
messaged 6 girls, 5 new girls.
1 instagram.

Instagram was from a vegan flight attendant swinging by Nashville with 40k followers lol. turned into a straight to crib... ...
that nosedived spectacularly

so i went to the gym lol


Date
Tinder convo started 7/21. Her profession was listed as "Pharmacy Resident" I had sent the gym pic with a joke since the date had been arranged quite "far in the future" (5 days away) just to check up.

We arrive at the bar/restaurant and order sour beers because I like fruity drinks (I'm a real man, I only drink double IPA ).

Chat about our backgrounds. She's leaving Nashville soon and I just moved here. I talk about how I am a music producer and have many music connections in Nashville. She talks about how she's been to China and enjoys eating "authentic food".

I go for the "let's listen to my music at my place" pull I've been using so far. She declines , saying "I have a rule where I don't go back to a guy's place on the first date." LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I change the subject to get her to talk more about herself, where she grew up, etc. Then after 15 minutes, I get the bill and pay for the sour beers. I lead us outside and we walk towards my apartment while chatting.

We are right outside my apartment building so I tell her that my place is right here, let's go. She declines again with her "rule" that she "doesn't go back to a guy's place on the first date". LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So I invite her to come check out the clubhouse with me. I give her a brief 10-15 minute tour of the pool, gym, and clubhouse area while making chat about how trombone slide positions map to french horn fingerings, because we both used to play in marching band.

Then I walk us to the elevator and say that my place is the next floor above. "you know...I have that rule where I don't go to a guy's place on the first date...one time I did and the guy started being rapey..." LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On that note, I ended the date and walked her downstairs and hugged her goodbye.

We had a pretty decent vibe overall, she has a cute face and a nice body, and this has potential for a second date happening. That is, if I don't get ghosted, or she sends me the "I didn't feel a connection" text. But if she is down, I'm thinking of doing a cooking date where I make some kind of paneer curry because I'm Indian and she's vegetarian and enjoys "authentic food".

Holden wrote: ↑

Wed 2022-07-27 15:54

Regarding the girl who's "moving to Florida"... When I get a dumb last minute excuse like that I also send pushy texts, but I do it knowing that she doesn't actually want to meet.

Women are trained not to hurt male egos so they never flat out reject you so you have to make them do it if you want some closure for yourself. Even though rationally I know she doesn't want to meet, in the back of my mind I'll have a voice telling me "yeah but what if her excuse is legit?"

So when I'm hit with a dumb excuse I just give them the "okay so when are you available?" and then I get a "I'll let you know" (lie) or "I don't know" and that's when I unfollow them, delete the convo, and put my mind at ease and forget about her.

I'm sure it's not the "game optimal" strategy and you could convince them to come out at a later date with more text game or whatever, but honestly I don't care to put in the effort

Have you ever gotten anywhere with the pushy texts on a "typical female excuse"? I'm really starting to see the obvious patterns now from my experiences over the past year, although it feels like it should have been more obvious to me earlier.

I think girls make such excuses because if she flat out said "I don't want to meet anymore", then she would have to handle the potential of the guy saying "why don't you want to meet?" and even maybe getting mad/blowing up. So it's "safer" to grasp for straws and generate some kind of fantastical scenario that allows her not to come out on the date. Then, even if you try to press her on it, she can stand her ground on the excuse, maybe even flip it on you for "accusing her of lying", and worst case scenario ghost.

still flummoxed at how people write daily logs lmfao

been sleeping too much and incessantly napping so schedule has been atrocious and haven't been keeping up with anything. barely hanging onto the dating stuff.

literally me rn:

Online
Wed 7/27 : boosts 9:00pm, 10:15pm, 11:00pm.
messaged 14 girls, 9 new, 6-7 convos, 2 numbers

had a date planned but girl flaked. had been chatting on snapchat.

tried to arrange date with girl who was "enthusiastically" messaging me, but she lives 50+ miles away with no car. rip

Thu 7/28 : boosts 8:15pm, 9:00pm, 9:45pm
messaged 5 girls, 2 new. trash volume

called a girl whose contact i got on wednesday. was per @Holden 's previous idea in my log. here was the preceding chat:

we ended up calling for about 20 minutes. kind of felt like the first part of a date? but she went onto ramble about shit like how she's "wary of guys" and doesn't "kiss on the first date" because she had some experience with some guy pinning her down blah blah etc. when i probed her schedule, she said she has plans for this weekend and works during the week but she'll be starting school soon and "maybe then". so basically no.

also managed to arrange a date with another girl who has deferred me twice already by sending her a picture of indian food i made because i'm indian.

Fri 7/29 : boosts 6:30pm, 8:15pm, 9:00pm, 10:00pm
messaged 7 girls, 4 new, 1 number, 1 date arranged. trash volume again despite extra boost

date schedule:
Sat 7pm
Sun 4pm
Sun 8pm

all black girls. about to experience jungle fever .

Nightgame
Wed 7/27 : 2 approaches

Troy and @lacroix dragged me out.

Second girl I approach who has a rose in her hair (similar to the rose I posted the other day). Said some dumbass line like "what field did u get that rose from". She was standing right outside this live music venue and it was way too loud so I pretty much immediately "micro-isolated" her to the other side of the street near a barrier where it was quieter.

I'm going to write this story from my own perspective. But I'll preface it by saying that Troy knew that the set was basically going to go nowhere from the beginning, and more experienced guys would agree. The interaction was somewhat novel to me though so I'm going to write about it in detail. Also, there's a lot of value in seeing the disparity in how a noob like me would try to calibrate and what a veteran like Troy would do in the same set .

She was a really hot, i mean it guys! tan 20 year old from Ohio. Just imagine "hot spray tan slim white girl" and you'll be spot on. We were very touchy and she was flirty and giggly while we chatted, which was obviously a green light. Troy and lacroix were distracting her symbiotic parasite fat friend.

But this was a novel situation to me, I didn't really know what to do from here. As in, she would likely follow along with what I have to say, but I didn't have a plan. I was out with two friends and she's in a duo and we just met. How could I pull or make anything of this interaction?

I tried to invite her to a low-key bar to get some drinks but she's not 21. I eventually just decided to stall and tell her we should go two blocks away to a more low-key area, mentally making plans to try to Uber everyone home. But she wants to consult her friend and bring her along so we go back to her friend and my friends.

Then she demands we sing her happy birthday because she just turned 20. In my head I would have sang it just to placate her so we can advance the interaction, but Troy immediately shoots it down with "we'll sing it to you after you come with us". After a mini "argument" Troy sings it hyper fast, they're not "satisfied", I sing it fast-ish but as a "song" and then they're like ok fine.

So we're walking and I have my arm over the tan girl's waist while she has her arm over me, and Troy and lacroix are entertaining the fat friend. Then the tan girl falls down , ditzy night girl style. She demands us to tie her shoe.

My instinct would have been to do it, but Troy immediately shoots her down again and says "hell no, we ain't tying your shoe". She demands it a few more times, and Troy remains firm. Eventually the fat friend sighs and ties the tan girl's shoe and we continue our excursion.

At a crosswalk, I decide to pick up the tan girl and carry her across. It's a move I've seen Troy do at night and I wanted to try it, and this seemed like the perfect opportunity. She kept saying "omg plz dont drop me" to which I replied "lol im gonna drop u ur gonna be in the hospital".

Anyway I had to hold her up and keep her from falling like 3 or 4 times. She basically got even ditzier after I had carried her. Great.

We get to this low-key karaoke bar and Troy leads us all to enter, but of course the tan girl can't get in because she's not 21 yet. So they wait in the entrance area and talk with the bouncer while Troy, lacroix, and I just go inside and go to the bar. This is when Troy was telling me that the set wasn't going to go anywhere. Not knowing what else to do, I believed him but I was still kind of looking out for the girls. And lacroix didn't really care about it because he was just kind of third-wheeling us ahaha.

Troy approached some black girls because he likes black girls. During that approach, the tan girl and her fat friend left the venue.

Later, we saw them riding on a buggy and they passed by us. They stopped and chatted with us. The tan girl pointed at Troy and said "I want your number!!!" so he gave it.

We could sit here and say "oh Troy looks better than you, so he wins out" even though that was "my" girl. While that's true, I also didn't lead the overall interaction and clearly I wasn't leading our group. When it was just the tan girl and I, the interaction was fine and I was leading her. But the moment Troy and the fat friend came into play, Troy was being the leader of our group. Additionally, I was instinctively about to "bend over" and do "favors" for the girl whereas Troy basically shot down anything the tan girl requested. Basically, my needy behaviors deep down surfaced and resulted in additional minus points for me, in contrast to Troy's idgaf attitude and willingness not to cater to the girl.

Though the girl never responded to Troy's text later so it doesn't matter in the end. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

Thu 7/28 : 10 approaches
Fri 7/29 : ~6 approaches

Debilitating approach anxiety. I'll spare the details from my log and promospam my approach anxiety Telegram broadcast channel again: https://t.me/+gUWGmTw2s89mOGU5

Something had happened to @arcade_fireee some weeks ago where he was having a " great" interaction with some girl and then she asked him to pull out his phone and she followed herself on Instagram from his account. I actually thought this was genius.

So I decided to do the same. There are so many times I have some yellow light "platonic" interactions that won't escalate, and the girl is about to leave, saying "nice meeting you" and etc, or you can't figure out what to do with the set. And they might even accept a contact exchange but you just get ghosted.

So in 3 of the approaches over the past 2 days, I told the girl to pull up her insta, and then I typed in my username and followed myself. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! now i can have a bunch of hot girl followers if I keep this up over time. Also, it might be motivation to actually post stories on instagram and use the platform. I really don't think girls will go through the effort of unfollowing you anyway (none of the 3 so far have, and I'm going to guess maybe only 1 in 10 will). Have even been messaging one of them who lives here.

This is basically a last-ditch idea to make certain lackluster approach interactions not go to complete waste. Hey, at least you get another follower and it's a hot girl. I got 3 within ~16, so if you actually approached at volume, could easily get 10-15 followers a week this way from random hot girls to inflate your profile lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Nightgame Takeaways
So that's 12 sessions for the month as I set out to do as one of my July goals: viewtopic.php?p=38247#p38247

I'll take a break from it and revisit it after my photoshoot in Austin next weekend for my August plan.

The main thing I've learned is that I cannot simply sporadically go out and do nightgame on random nights if I still haven't handled my approach anxiety. I got over daytime approach anxiety by approaching 11 days in a row . If you read my log between those posts, I had made sure to approach at least 1 girl a day and in general was trying to approach x+1 girls each day, until eventually something "unlocked" and I just enjoyed the act of prancing up on girls itself, independent of the outcome. And I set the bar retardedly low from the beginning, like doing one approach. And then doing one approach "quickly", then two, etc. Until one day I just did 17 and didn't even care that I got rejected all 17 times.

Additionally, I have far more night approach anxiety now than I did back in e.g. Austin and during all of those gamecations. But at that point I was doing regular daygame, and for the gamecations I would arrive a few days before everyone else specifically to do lots of solo daygame to "prime" me for the nightgame. Nowdays, my daytime approach has "meteorically collapsed" to zero, and the only approach I do is at night. Even though I have zero approach anxiety when I do make the occasional bullshit daygame approach here and there.

The two points above will be things to consider for my August month plan. I think nightgame is only "easier" for people who actually enjoy clubbing and going out at night. But for people who don't, daygame is much easier. WIth daygame, you don't already have to be in the "party mood" and girls' egos aren't automatically inflated from being in their playground, and you don't get those strategic dynamics such as "hot girl/fat friend" symbiotic duos.

I want to get good at nightgame because I basically want to suffer (lol just kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ....maybe........), and I can potentially get the hottest girls from nightgame instapulls (as in, girls who probably wouldn't agree to go on a future date with me from daygame nor match with me on Tinder might be dtf at night and if the stars align like that cheerleader lay, I can make it happen). Plus, I just want to get good at nightgame because I think in order to be good at nightgame, you have to be maximally in tune with social skills + coolness/vibe + looks, more than any other method of getting girls. It'll be a multi-year project for me I think, and I plan on staying in Nashville until I enjoy and am good at this. I honestly have no other purpose in my life right now.

Online has actually helped me with my nightgame interactions too. When I finally have the balls to make an approach and get into a conversation, I feel like I'm teasing girls more and playing around rather than just asking dumbass interview questions entirely. Online dating interactions are teaching me the pace and flow of how to go from "meeting" a girl to getting her out on a date (essentially getting her to greenlight), rather than just stubbornly pushing forward like an autist and like how I used to. I really enjoy the cross-pollination effect from doing these simultaneously.

Online only helps with the actual interaction part. I think I can get maximum gains if I incorporate daygame again. I didn't really have night approach anxiety when I was also doing daygame so I think I need to do it again. Also I can get more dates of course, and I'm literally sleeping on the avenue I'm the most "comfortable" with when interacting with girls.

ok children gather around

So I had three dates planned for the weekend and two of them flaked. Looking at my scheduled dates vs dates that showed, that's roughly a 66% flake rate. I'll post a breakdown of my current Tinder stats later but let me get a story out of the way first.

I had a date planned at 8:00pm, but the girl texted me that she was running late. The girl was profusely apologizing over text for being late so she was on her way. I stay at home and chill for 30 minutes before leaving and wait outside the taco place.

Now based on the girl's pictures, I was expecting a chubby-ish mixed black girl. This wasn't going to be one of those "guys she's so hot!" girls.

I see a tall female figure walk around the corner and she looks at me and says "hey!"

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I stand up.

She's like 6'3" .

And she's not chubby either. She dolled herself up quite a bit for the date and was more attractive than her pictures made her seem. Kind of a reverse catfish.

But she's 6'3" .

I'm 5'5". Since I'm wearing the @ovnidos shoes , I was 5'7".

I was taken aback and didn't even go for my usual hug. Just was like hey. Held the door open for her but then I impulsively went in first.

I think it wasn't the fact that she was so tall that startled me, but rather that I didn't expect it. She didn't write her height in her Tinder bio and her pictures didn't make her seem tall either. It was a total surprise. And I've gone on some dates with girls taller than I am, but this was on another level.

I said I'm probably just going to get nachos and beer but you can order whatever you want. She was like "ok"... in a quiet voice. We proceeded to then stare at the menus in awkward silence for like 5 minutes and I randomly recommend menu items. Then she keeps staring at the menu and I'm like "do you want to just get water" and she's like "yeah". So I order the nachos and waters for us.

This is when I realized, wait, this girl has the energy and vibe of a tiny Asian girl. She's obviously insecure about her height. That eased the tension for me a bit and I just started talking normally like the preceding autism didn't just happen.

The girl has never been outside of the South in her life and had a soft country twang to her accent. I love southern accents so that's a plus for me. She used to play basketball and volleyball, but now she's into fashion design because she wants to make feminine clothing for tall girls. Wow, I'm liking this girl more and more. Total 180 from the "I'm researching pharmaceutical technology and I've been in school for 7 years" type.

We get into a "deep" conversation about how we're both "height outliers". I got her to talk more about her situation and I talked a little bit about mine.

Eventually I got into my standard conversation about how I make music. The date wasn't very long and it had only been about 20 minutes, but I decided to just go for the pull when we had a silence. Usual "let's listen to my music at my place". She instantly agrees.

We go to my room and she has to duck under the doorway. She sits on the side of the bed and I open my laptop with my pre-opened Logic project ready to play. "ok here's the song I'm working on" (even though I've already finished it. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

We listen to the song. I tell her to take off her shoes and come closer on the bed, but she "ignores it".

So, I show her another song I made. Then I tell her again to take off her shoes and sit up on the bed. This time she complies.

I put on the standard album I use to begin escalation. I get closer to her and rest my hand on her thigh, which is like a big armrest for me lolzzzzzz.




I go for the kiss....



and get declined . Mouth full of her saccharine lip gloss.

My recent escalation pattern does not include any kind of cuddling before I go for the makeout. I've found it unnecessary so far and I've found cuddling to be awkward if we haven't even made out yet (I used to try to cuddle girls before making out, but they often squirmed away or "starfished", and I would rarely even get the makeout somehow).

But this was the first time I got declined on the makeout so far with my current escalation pattern. So I immediately set up the pillows and told her to lay down and put my arm over her. Her legs were scrunched up because she's tall. Told her to move her legs closer to mine, she inched them, so I just grabbed her huge legs and placed them over mine. Then she started nuzzling into me more herself.

I made more small chat about nonsense while stroking her hair. I deliberately placed her so my head was above hers. When the brief chit chat turned to silence, after maybe 2-3 minutes, I pulled her chin up into my face and attempted to makeout again. This time it worked.

We made out for a few minutes. I basically had to position her hands where I wanted them on my body. Sounds great to me, girl just does whatever I make her do.

Then I was just like fuck it let's see how quickly I can push this. I told her to sit up and take off her shirt.

*with a lot of sass* nuh-uh!

So I reverted back to cuddling again (rather than immediately making out, since I took a gamble on steamrolling the escalation). More chit chat, then I started making out with her again.

I decided to start taking my shirt off, rather than asking her again.

b...before we go farther...i'm on my period
that's fine, we can put a towel down (note that I have never had period sex before or was really even prepared, but I did have a towel ready under the bed).

She made a slightly disgusted face.

oh...i'm also a virgin...

FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'M A VIRGIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TIME TO HUSTLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that's fine with me, we won't do much

I ended up taking off my shirt. We went back to making out some more. I started to lightly bite her lip, choke her, and rub my pants over her doing "fake sex". She responded with mimicking how I was kissing her, sucking on my lips and biting on my lips too. Excellent. I would start tonguing her, and she would tongue me, it was a great call and response.

I compliment her with "you're a great kisser". This is more than I've talked during any sexual interaction ever, but I liked that she was trying to copy what I was doing. She giggled and then we continued making out.

I started to wander my hand under her shirt this time, rather than trying to get her to take it off. She let me do that, and I fondled her breasts over her bra. Then I get up and tell her to take off her shirt. This time she not only takes off her shirt, but also her bra without me telling her to . Great.

More making out, finally get to suck on dem tittiezzzzzzzzzz.

Now I unzip my pants and place her hand on my hard cock! I tell her to move her hand up and down. I basically have to instruct her to do everything, which is awesome. This is how all girls should be lol. She starts making very slow but exaggerated movements on my dick, which was quite uncomfortable. But I just continue the makeout and etc.

I try to navigate my hand over her pants, but she objects again with the period thing. I don't have enough experience yet to navigate around it, and I don't want to end this with me being blueballed again like the last girl I had over .

So I just go back to making out, and then move her hand again over my hard cock!



ok here's the handjob tutorial!!!

I take her hand and move her fingers so she has a more comfortable grip, and then simulate jerking myself off with my hand over her hand at the pace and intensity I want it at.

Then I let go and let her go off to the races. Similar to the lip biting and making out, she mimics exactly what I did and the handjob feels great because she's doing it exactly how I would jerk myself off.

I start to feel myself about to come. I hold it in once. Then I decide I want to just explode! everywhere.

I cover myself in silk streams as she continued stroking my cock.

that was good, you're good at this for having little experience

She makes a shy giggle and I decide to get dressed. She looks at me with her head turned to the side like "huh"? I tell her to get dressed, and she does. I didn't know how to navigate around the period thing, plus I just came.

I tell her to go wash her hands and then I give her a tour of the apartment clubhouse.

She's following me like a puppy, which I find adorable. I said "I like that you just follow me around, not a fan of the girls who race ahead of me". Troy would later tell me I should not say that next time because it's uncalibrated. But I would like to know a better way to compliment behaviors I like from girls.

I walk her to her car and have to go on my tippy toes to give her a kiss goodbye.

If I don't get ghosted or Crisis of Connection style "I don't feel the connection" text, it would be cool to see this girl again and see if I can get the lay. Will be great to say "I'm 5'5" and slept with a 6'3" girl, no excuses", but it'll actually have to happen first.

update: story continued

Here are my stats for July 2022 from Tinder:
- ~100 matches .
- 25-30 numbers , 1 instagram, 1 snapchat. I actually arranged dates with the instagram and snapchat, but they both flaked. The snapchat girl wasn't from here and is sending me snaps from her home, which is some island in the middle of the Pacific so I'll enjoy the random beach and coconut pictures (I'll enjoy the coconut pictures especially because I'm Indian).
- 13 dates arranged (10 girls). including one girl who flaked 3 times
- 5 dates showed up
- 4 pulls/fooling around (let's just count straight to crib as a "pull"...... )
- 2 lays

It's crazy because I literally never got a single phone number from Tinder before this month. I had tried to hustle it back in November in Austin, but I relied on mostly soup texting and gave up after getting one number from a fat old dude playing pranks.

texting
Don't feel like going through all my tinder chats and finding how many started conversations with me. But I think my app->number conversion is alright, especially if I don't get ghosted on the first message (if I can get the girl to talk, I'd say the trajectory will end up in me getting her number about 1 in 3-4 times).

I think I'm atrocious at texting once I get the number though. Still haven't found the right balance of being forward through text but still not come off like a total autist. And additionally, I get too eager and pushy to get the date happening and ignore yellow-red/red lights. The above stats might look "decent" for getting a date from the numbers, but I'll post my text conversations to my group chats and get lots of feedback on random fuckups I wasn't even aware of. But as I learn and implement more feedback, and keep shooting myself in the foot I *should* be able to figure it out.

I had to write up this flow for trying to get a date out of a number. But I still haven't gotten the details down of executing it properly:

GOAL: show you're a real person and invested in texting you, then arrange a date
confirm:
- say hey it's me

investing:
- talk about your current plans etc in creative way, ask about girl's plans

STOPLIGHT:
green - she's responding to you etc, talking about herself etc
-> go to date arrange
yellow - she's just saying like "ok lol have fun"
-> keep bantering, tease a bit more, you+her etc
red - ghost
-> shoot respawn in few days. if respawn unsuccessful, dead

date arrange:
- ask when girl is free wrt her plans

STOPLIGHT:
green - gives date she's free
-> agree to it, pitch place and stay firm on it (disagrees->"i'll get ur uber here" etc)
yellow - says she's busy, not free this week, etc with no alternative
-> tell her you'll ping her in x time to check up
red - ghosts
-> shoot respawn in few days. go back to investing

I've found I often get immediately ghosted if I just go for pure logistics even after I get the number.

On the other hand I can get into some conversations and "investing" and often still get ghosted when I try to pitch meeting up (so maybe those are just time wasters)

And then I can arrange the date but get a typical female excuse when the day of the date happens.

I did get one date arranged from immediately jumping into logistics upon getting the number, but that girl messaged me first on Tinder (the 6'3 girl I talked about in my last post). So it made sense.

volume
The above tangent about texting is all fine and good, but what will really improve my results is increased volume . From looking at @Manganiello 's prime period , he was getting more matches per week than I'm getting per month .

Additionally, I've barely touched Bumble because I literally get maybe 1-3 likes per night and zero messages. And on Bumble, the *girl* needs to message you first to even start anything. I've also not even tried using Hinge or other apps.

Fortunately, I somehow intuitively knew my initial volume was going to be pretty low (although usable), so I had decided to set up a photoshoot with @MILFandCookies as soon as possible. That led into being recommended into switching to cutting to lose some facial fat and get more muscle definition and abs. Although the results from that are very subtle as I've only cut for about 2-3 weeks. But hopefully this cut + photoshoot routine I'm doing this week + his professional expertise will give me some photos to blow up my profile. This will be synonymous with me moving from Chattanooga -> Nashville to approach more girls back in September 2021.

And if I still don't get the desired volume, there's some additional points I can improve:
- continued cutting
- (ephemeral) tattoos
- updated style. my style is from "2017" apparently 🥲
I'd be willing to do another photoshoot in October if my August one doesn't cut it with an even better body and style. But the volume I get from this photoshoot should definitely increase my volume.


just remember

here's the mindset u need to have in dating for success
everytime u get laid
u gotta walk back
and say
FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'M A VIRGIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TIME TO HUSTLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://vocaroo.com/1aJDvLi6ys0s

ytlord wrote: ↑

Fri 2022-08-05 07:23

For your level of experience this conversion rate is honestly incredible, probably better than mine. 100 matches - 25 phone numbers is DEFINITELY better than I do, though I'll be the first to admit I'm the laziest possible texter. Fucking love reading your log dude, socially speaking you have almost the exact energy that I wanna cultivate in my life.

Thanks man.

My app->number conversion rate is probably relative high compared to many guys because I don't do the near-"soup texting" approach that's in Andy's Tinder guide (including @Manganiello 's was, he was getting about 1:10 for matches->numbers ).

I listed my main number extraction strategy here: viewtopic.php?p=38320#p38320

The main flaw I see is that while I do a lot of teasing and make the conversation "entertaining", I'm not sure how sexual it is and I am definitely not doing proper filtering. But I'm also at the stage where my experience is so low that I just need a high volume of dates with many girls to really hone in on what I want, based on actual experience, rather than my preconceived notions of what I "should be getting". That inevitably includes (unintentionally) dealing with timewasters and etc until I can recognize the patterns myself and avoid it.