brown shogun classic: 2021-2023

Thanks for the reply @Pluto .

However, I will be honest up front, when I initially read your reply, I was a bit irritated because I felt like the points you brought up were just talking past my situation and how I've done things so far. And I feel like I've been unfairly conflated with other guys when you bring up things such as:

Pluto wrote: ↑

Tue 2022-03-22 22:51

I think so many dudes get it wrong when it comes to game and approaching women when they think that just because you do so many approaches, you will eventually get good.

Pluto wrote: ↑

Tue 2022-03-22 22:51

What's even worse is that these guys will now call themselves a game expert for example just because they have done so many approaches despite the fact that the results do not line up

Pluto wrote: ↑

Tue 2022-03-22 22:51

IMO, getting laid is the worst thing that can happen to such men because then it just reinforces their toxic behavior as not being a big deal.

These things are no doubt, true. But maybe I'm overreacting. I'm curious why you brought these points up in your post.

I'm not entitled to you having read my log, so I'll try to explain certain nuances here with my last post and my journey in general.

For me, self-loathing wasn't something that came from approach. It was a trait I've had since childhood.

Did certain moments from approach reinforce that belief? Perhaps.

But I've usually dismissed most blackpill content "on the internet". If you've seen this post: viewtopic.php?p=28201#p28201 , I pretty much started blissfully unaware of certain things that may actually be a disadvantage .

And I've learned that guys without those "disadvantages" cannot possibly understand what it's like to be in that position. In effect, they're "naturals" with specific traits. We could by all means go and find counterexamples (e.g.: this guy doesn't act super masculine and has a good dating life!), but that just begs the question of, okay, now I need to observe what he's doing that I'm not, and then I can recalibrate my actions towards that.

I'm not the type of guy who makes excuses not to change something and fix that thing about himself, it should be obvious from how often I go full-on introspective in my log, because I seek to not only identify reasons why I might not be succeeding, but then how I can actually fix them . And then y'all have seen me post about actually doing it.

Some of my recent "blackpill" posts were completely from my own observations. But how we interpret observations of people's behavior towards us entirely depends on how we see ourselves at a baseline level. I can reframe this story, for example, viewtopic.php?p=27178#p27178 , as "well this girl simply didn't prefer my type, I will just go find girls who are interested in my type".

While this is solid positive thinking and it makes you "feel better", depending on what your goals are, this can actually result in stagnation and complacency. In other words, there's a certain type of girl I want, and for whatever reason I'm not getting it (ok not a pornstar necessarily, but bear with me here). It's obviously because I'm not able to filter for the girls I want yet.

And I think it's defeatist to sit there and say "well you just need to find the girls who like you already". Two reasons:
1) it absolves you of the responsibility to change yourself
2) it teaches you that there's nothing you can do to achieve certain goals

At the end of the day I had to peer deep in myself and figure out what that was. And then think about how that's influencing my own analyses, decisions, lifestyle choices, etc.

Obviously the next step is figuring out how to go from there and change it.


Some other comments I have regarding your post:

Pluto wrote: ↑

Tue 2022-03-22 22:51

The problem with pickup is that so many guys come into it with a very weak foundation of who they are.

This is definitely true regarding myself. Back in August, I decided, fuck it, let's start approaching girls. And along the way I was forced to uncover inconvenient truths about myself if I wanted to continue (like I always do throughout my log, even now). I've repeatedly said that I see "talking to girls" as a form of therapy, because that's what it's done for me.

Pluto wrote: ↑

Tue 2022-03-22 22:51

From observing guys who were naturals that did well with women, I always noticed that they might not have had the smoothest lines or even known the best tips and tricks to get her into bed but their vibe just came off as infectious in a positive way. You wanted to be around them and women as a result overlooked their flaws.

Yes.

Pluto wrote: ↑

Tue 2022-03-22 22:51

You can tell that these guys are truly independent of outcomes because they laugh off rejections and have a great night nonetheless. What's most important is that these guys are desirable company to be around.

I've been in this zone before too, yeah.

Pluto wrote: ↑

Tue 2022-03-22 22:51

A word of advice for you @colgate is that you need to be careful yourself. Being a guy of a minority group, there is so much content out there about how you are unlovable or undesired based on things about yourself that you cannot change. I have seen this eat men alive and turn them into lesser version of themselves. My hopes are that @KillYourInnerLoser and @Radical continue to do the good job that they are doing here to keep all conversations centered around how your race has a big say in how much women love you out.

I don't know why you brought this point up honestly because I've rarely talked about race, and I've never been insecure about it. It just comes off as you wrote this post without actually understanding what my struggles are, because it's beyond race.

See this other post I made: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=854&p=30727&hilit= ... nce#p30727

Here's a fat update.

So I flew into Chicago last Tuesday morning and did some daygame on Wednesday and Thursday. Then I met up with the gamecation group I met in Phoenix back in January to head over to Iowa City. You're probably like "colgate, who the FUCK lives in Iowa???". That's what I thought too, but it's pretty much exclusively a college town with a poppin nightlife scene on the weekends.

The Destiny Chick
Started my day on Wednesday approaching an Asian girl at the station. She said she had a bf, but I decided to keep talking to her to get some more intel on where I should go. Just asked her where there might be people walking around and such and she suggested the Water Tower mall area.

Did another approach on the street, also rejected with bf.

Then I walked into the Water Tower mall and saw a cute black chick coming down the escalator and opened her.

She was asking me whether this was a prank. At first I joked "yeah, this is a prank. I'm joking" -> "omg..." -> "no just kidding I'm serious". A little back and forth.

You're going to have to prove me this isn't a prank. Show me your social media.
I only have Snapchat
How are you going to prove this isn't a prank???
uhhh...I'll show you random pictures of me doing stuff on my phone

So I had us sit down on a couch and I started showing her just whatever was in my camera roll. She also commented "oh by the way, I have to go back to work soon", but I basically ignored that ("oh yeah no worries"), and continued. Then she just wanted to keep asking me more questions about who I was and what I was doing in Chicago (I had told her I'm a tourist). I flipped it and started asking some things about her. She later said something like "I don't know why, but Indians keep wanting to talk to me, but you don't seem like an Indian. You're confident, and no offense, but most Indians are timid."

Then I said that I should keep exploring Chicago and she told me she could show me some places on her way back to work. So we exited the mall.

She was telling me like "omg I seriously thought that u coming up to me was a prank, you like just stood still and pointed right at me like 'hey!' and i was like huh?? me??? i see it on tiktok all the time". I literally don't remember how I approached her, including the pointing thing. I guess apparently I pointed right at her and called her cute or something lolol.

I have a confession to make.
Go for it
I'm actually done with work. I don't have anything to do now haha.

So I suggested we go eat some lunch, because I was hungry. I directed us to a Japanese BBQ.

I think you're about to take me to a place I've always wanted to go to...

Then we arrive at the restaurant.

Omg...this is the exact place...this is destiny...

She started telling me about how she usually walks around in the mall during her work breaks, but something pulled her to go to some stores she doesn't normally go to. And that she found nothing in those stores and had no idea why she was "pulled there". She said the reason was because she was supposed to meet me that day.

She also kept making a lot of comments about how strong and direct my eye contact was. Like "you're like staring right into my soul...".

Anyway, we ate food and then it started raining.

Hey, this is pretty crazy, and I know we just met. But we should watch some movies at your place. It's raining outside.

She mulled over it for maybe a minute or two and I kept convo going. She said she had homework to do, but was probably free on Thursday. I would have been down to meet on Thursday, but I was kind of like well it's raining and I don't know what else to do now. Then she said, okay we can go to my place.

We walked out of the restaurant and she wanted to show me some other places first. There is this Nordstrom with a bar right in the middle of all the clothing aisles . She bought me a drink and we chatted some more. Then we rode the bus to her place and I had put my arm over her on the bus.

We arrive at her place and she says she wants to change into something more comfortable (lol). But then she's like "oh my water has issues I need to fix this". So I let her deal with that for a bit. She tells me I can put on any movie I want.

Then she starts washing her dishes. I sit there for like 5-10 minutes and my heart starts racing. I can't handle it so I get up and walk over to her, and tell her to put her hand on my heart. She's like "omg are u okay???" I told her "u make me nervous". "Kiss me". -> "omg no....i'll hug you..." and gives me a hug.

I lead her to the couch and she sits kind of on top of me while hugging me while holding my hand. I tried kissing her again but I got deflected. "Let me go finish washing the dishes". So I let her off and just watched the movie for a bit more.

She comes over to the couch and tells me "you're so different now...like you're in a trance or something...are you hiding something from me?" "no, I told you what I wanted" "yeah but I feel like ur hiding something else..."

She moves onto the floor and opens her laptop to do some homework. I move over to her after a bit on the floor and after some talk I try to makeout again but it didn't work. We chatted for a bit about the hw and I tried again I think but didn't work again so I just sat back on the couch.

I basically do nothing for another 20-30 minutes, and then she starts talking to me again. She's like "you keep switching between being super confident and normal and being in this weird trance, and I don't know what's happening". I basically have no idea what to do so I just chill on the couch and keep watching the movie while she finishes her homework.

I tell her to sit on the couch and I put my arm over her and she nonreacts. I think she said some comment about how I'm not giving her any space, and I pretty much disengage completely for the rest of the time.

Then she walks me to the station. She asks me why I'm so quiet now, and I just kind of ask "I am?". Hugged at station, deflected kiss, and I didn't get her contact (I remember her instagram handle I think from when she was showing me).

Always talk to girls
Went out and maybe only did ~10 approaches on Thursday. It was pretty cold and rainy and I couldn't exactly find volume even though there were a good amount of people walking around. I was only approaching solo girls because I was trying to get instadates only since I was leaving for Iowa the next day.

Then I was riding the train and realized I should just start talking to attractive girls without thinking about and bothering with any sort of "outcome". I still think "approaching a girl" is this like separate act and I don't entirely settle in to acting like myself until I feel like we're on a date and the girl is engaging me or something. Really have to work on that, so I figured if I see a cute girl or group of girls, I should just strike up convo or do an approach or anything, even if I know it won't go anywhere . So I did 2 of those on Thursday night while riding the trains around.

On Friday morning, I was riding the train to meet the gamecation group when I saw a pretty unassuming skinny black chick in an airport employee uniform. I just directly opened her. I learned she'd never traveled outside of Chicago in her whole life, and of course, never been on a plane in her whole life even though she cleans airplanes every day. I was telling her about all my crazy travels and she kept slowly taking off her mask and smiling and giggling.

I liked the vibe we had but I was about to get off to my station so I just decided to grab her contact.

Dance floor magnet
Got picked up from the station by the gamecation guys and headed over to Iowa City. I swapped out the lightbulbs in the room with colored bulbs and had some strawberry gin ready to go in case I could get a girl back.

We went out and I immediately just started vibing with the music and heading over to the dance floor, separating myself from the gamecation group. This other random group of 4 guys came up to me like "yoooo we saw u here last year u were going wild bro!!!" I have never been to Iowa in my life , but fuck it, let's play along with it. "Yeah I was so fucked up dude I don't even remember". They took me to this other venue that was pretty much entirely a dance floor.

I separated from them and basically went ballistic. I was dancing with so many girls, some which I approached but many where girls pulled me to dance with them and their group. I basically did zero conversation and extremely minimal talking. I tried to makeout with one girl in a group but got deflected and immediately switched to another girl in the group.

Ran into the group of 4 guys again and they had a girl with them. Decided to start talking with her and lightly touching her, etc, and one dude was like "omg that's my bro's gf man...". I basically waved it off ("oh really?") and kept talking to her. Then another guy from the group shows up like oh yeah this is my gf lol so I backed off.

The group bought me a drink, and we sat at a table and shot the shit for a little bit. Then I just went back to the dance floor to try to get somewhere with any of the girls.

Met up with the gamecation group again at another venue, only to get immediately separated and pulled into another group of girls and danced with them. Kind of the same deal as the other club.

I think I had danced with 20+ girls that night. But I couldn't seem to make inroads. I think I intuit body language only when there's no talking going on and it's all dancing, and I didn't feel like sticking with one girl for too long as a result. Also most of the girls were in groups. I usually ejected out of dances when I started feeling the girl pull away. Essentially, I could start dancing with girls or even have girls pull me to dance with them pretty easily but had no idea how to escalate the interaction past just dancing and maybe grinding here and there.

Some more daygame
Despite whatever frustrations and dark moments I expressed past few weeks, I essentially realized at the end of the day I just love going out on a bright sunny afternoon (or in this case, a cold windy evening) and talking to girls. I can't see myself not doing that. It doesn't matter how much I suck at it right now and how much I can't make real inroads, I just have to do it.

Did 7 approaches in around 45 minutes around Iowa City. Got the number of a hot barbie doll white chick who was actually also going to move to Nashville in a few months, and then I later texted her to get her snap. Tried to invite her to an afterparty at my friend's hotel room and she even saved the messages with the logistics and pics but ultimately didn't show. But then she sent me a random snap the next day anyway. So I might start trying to have a lot of random girls on snap and sending random crap to them and send more stuff to girls who send me random crap back, because it seems like that's what they're doing too. I'm new to Snapchat but it seems like a fun platform to use. Plus, I think it will force me to try to do interesting things in my life and/or be more creative with framing certain things I'm doing.

I hate night conversation!
Unlike the previous night, I decided to wing with another guy in the group on the next night. I don't know why, but I absolutely hate having conversations with girls and people during nightgame. I'd rather just go straight to the dance floor. I'm not terrible at it during the daytime, but night just puts me on the edge because I know my social awareness is like zero and I feel like a total alien in nightclubs. Dance floors rule because I love music and once I figured out how to vibe to literally any song, even if I don't like it, I feel like that's my real language.

I just feel like I can't be creative at all while talking at night. Sometimes if I have some momentum going, perhaps. But I still feel super dull with conversation in general. I really respect stand-up comedians because I literally have zero idea how tf people do that shit. Maybe it's something I need to look into figuring out.

My friend commented on it as well, that I was being quiet. I tried to start talking a bit more but I still just felt very subdued and holding myself back way too much.

But I have to get over this. I'm going to be severely shooting myself in the foot if I can't get past actually trying to have conversations with people at night. And I'm genuinely enamored by how certain guys can just lock-in these interesting nightclub/bar conversations. They are way more interesting than daytime ones, and I wish I knew how to do that. The advice I mainly got was "just go up and say anything". So maybe I'm literally going to have to do some drills where I go up to as many girls as possible and literally make any observational comment and keep the interactions going as long as possible. idk.

There is no time for games. Only time for gains.

My favorite approach from that night was when another friend and I approached some group of girls. We told one of the girls we would buy her a drink if she played fake bouncer and got 5 people to show her an ID. She was on the fence like saying "omg......yes.....idk......maybe.....no...idk....yeah". So I just told her "ok I'll show you and then u can copy me". First person in line actually pulls out her ID again and is about to show me when she sees the venue paper wristbands on my arm and is like "omg wait a sec...". Then two guys deflect me with "hell no".

I think my rejections scared the girl but she still seemed on the fence. So I gave her some motivational ass pep talk "look this is gonna be hilarious and u can probably do it better than i did. if u go for the guys that look like simps they'll definitely show you their ID". Still on the fence and then ultimately was like "omg, I can't do this..." and we left.

The negative momentum I felt from my abysmal conversational skills basically didn't help me when I tried to switch into dance floor mode at some other venues. I just wasn't vibing at all, no girls came close to me, and any interaction i tried starting got instantly deflected.

Later I somehow got a bit of sensory overload and crashed like around 1:15. But then I met up with the group for an afterparty.

I had learned that pretty much nobody got any action from nightgame, except one guy managed to somehow pull and smash 2 different girls on that night. Throughout the trip, no one could get past a makeout. And some of the strats that one guy had used which worked like a charm in his previous Iowa City visits basically had girls running away (like punching bag game bets).

The Airport Chick 2
I had a lot of time to kill in between being dropped back off in Chicago and flying back home. I texted the chick from Friday whom I approached on the train and she was down to meet me in the airport.

We met and she initially was bubbly and giggly and looked very open. All the bars/restaurants were closing down so we just sat on some bench and talked while I had my arm over her. I could tell she was nervous af because she asked me like 5 times "so what are u gonna do when u get home" and "what did u do this weekend". She kept looking at me with these cute eyes but I didn't make any moves omfg .

After maybe 20-30 mins of hanging out, she was like "why all these people be lookin at us..." I asked her if she knew anywhere more private we could hang out, so we walked to another part of the terminal.

At some point she started saying that she was kind of tired and wanted to go home. I got pretty desperate and needy because I also noticed she stopped being super bubbly and I kept pushing for us to hang out some more, which she obliged. We sat down on two stools but she was trying to look at her phone (I told her to put it away). And when I was sitting facing her with my knee in between her knees, she immediately turned 90 degrees and closed herself off. I noticed all this, but went for a hail Mary type makeout attempt right there and she was like omg no...

She was like can u walk me to the trains? And I said ok sure but I can't leave the terminal because I'd have to go through security again. Apparently she didn't even realize that. I tried to get a kiss right at the security exit, but she gave me a kiss on the cheek instead and then kept telling me to call her. I didn't, but I later texted her asking what her Snapchat account was.



Takeaways
Okay, I obviously had a good amount of fun. But the Destiny Chick and Airport Chick 2 made me realize my new biggest flaw, and I can actually reflect back on it to pretty much every time I've gotten deflected on escalation, and even as far back as just getting deflected on certain approaches. It drills quite deeply into a new root problem I've discovered.

The moment I sense I'm being shut out or closed off, I get extremely desperate and needy and try to push for things way too hard . Like I refuse to just take anything I perceive as "closing off" in stride, I just get super needy and my behavior becomes extremely jilted and bizarre. The Destiny Chick pretty much explicitly highlighted it when she said I'm in a "trance" and it's so different from how when I was "confidently talking to her" and "staring into her soul", but then I started acting like I was "hiding something". And I noticed how weird and pushy I became with Airport Chick 2 when she started closing off and mentioning that she wanted to check out for the night.

I was reading a book recommendation I got from one of the guys in the gamecation group called How to Make People Like You in 90 Seconds or Less and this passage stuck its finger right at me like I probably did with Destiny Chick:

^ if you want to know how my approach interactions/instadates/dates/pulls go, it's literally this story. Rosa slightly pushes back or starts acting a little closed off about purchasing the computer, and Tony seems to somehow take it personally for whatever reason and literally switches from being charming and sunny to neurotic and desperate.

I can think of several approaches where I noticed the girl becoming closed off at a certain point and my reaction was usually jumping for the contact anyway. Or jumping for advancing the interaction in some way, even though I can tell she's closed off. Or even, say I get a girl's attention and she's giving a me a huge frown and looks like she's ready to walk off, and I get flustered and just impulsively call her cute even though I'm completely put off by her reaction. I mean her reaction isn't cute, so why the fuck am I going to call her that.

I don't exactly know how to rectify this. Maybe I keep thinking once she's closed off, I can never open it again, so I do the worst possible thing which is trying to advance the interaction, instead of trying to open her up, or just calling it and leaving. I have no idea how to open up girls who are becoming closed off and while calling it and leaving would probably boost my self-respect, I'd probably be blowing a lot of opportunities relying on that too much. So I'd really like some feedback on this.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

lacroix wrote: ↑

Tue 2022-03-29 17:15

maybe that's why it came fast to you to escalate physically so quickly

Maybe part of it is me trying to steamroll past open/closed body language and expressions because I thought it didn't matter, when it seems like it does. And also some stupid roadblock I have where I think I have zero control of the girl and there's nothing I can do to open her up once she's closed off.

lacroix wrote: ↑

Tue 2022-03-29 17:15

For me the goal is to just joke around and have a ton of fun. I'm not always in the mood and can't always pull it off

Yeah, maybe I just need to "give myself permission to suck" and just try to talk to as many people (not just hot girls) as possible just to gain momentum and see what happens.

lacroix wrote: ↑

Tue 2022-03-29 17:15

wait, is this who I think it is? The guy who pulled multiple girls the same night when we were in Phoenix? LOL

No, funnily enough he didn't get anything. Only a clit vibrator from a chick who left her bag in his room, but that was from a duo pull with another guy. The guy who pulled+smashed twice on Saturday night was actually the guy I thought was some random dude trying to steal my approach in this post: viewtopic.php?p=27153#p27153

lacroix wrote: ↑

Tue 2022-03-29 17:15

So I think if you practice getting more comfortable with longer silences you'll be golden. One thing I sometimes do is just sit there with a really big derpy smile and say "sup," or "help me make conversation I'm blanking right now!" Just calling it out can be a pretty fun.

Funnily enough, during daygame instadates/dates, I do this a lot. I love just looking deep into a girl's eyes and then I don't have to do any work and she just drives the conversation haha. Maybe I need to just make small inroads at night and then do this too at night.

lacroix wrote: ↑

Tue 2022-03-29 17:15

Like, when you're pushing for sex/escalation and get turned down, maybe you randomly become a bit more insecure, your face expression changes and your confidence melts away. The solution I think is to OWN what you're doing. Being willing to stand by it, aka VULNERABILITY. I wonder if sometimes subconsciously you kissing/pulling is something you try to "get away with" with the girl.

Yeah, I think that's pretty much it. I feel like from being active in the daygame chat for so long gave me this toxic mindset that girls don't want to do anything and you're supposed to cajole them into servicing you.

But it's probably closer to something like, you are trying to offer an all-expenses-paid vacation to random people. Yeah, most people would probably decline an offer like that, even if it's all-expenses-paid so they have nothing to lose and everything to gain, but they have some excuses and/or obligations for why they can't do it, so getting someone to take it would probably be inherently low-percentages. But if you want to actually get the person who would be willing to take it in the first place, you have to actually have an exciting vacation ready for them and be able to express that in a way that makes them feel that they know you'd give them a good time.

^bit of a longwinded analogy, but I'm still nowhere close to that point yet. I have so many insecurities and feelings of inferiority I have to get over, still. But it'll happen.

lacroix wrote: ↑

Tue 2022-03-29 17:15

I'm not saying you're getting butthurt, but if you get awkward or shut down a little bit I think the girl might receive it that way. It's like, I liked this guy so much, all that happened was I didn't want to kiss him yet, why is he suddenly acting so different, was it just an act? For you it wasn't an act, just a bit of inexperience making you awkward.

Honestly, I think I do get pretty butthurt when it does happen. Like I feel like I lose interest just because she declined it initially and I start shutting down and getting cold. I don't think I do it overtly, but it kind of hits me in the same spot as probably how I acted when I was a kid and threw a tantrum when I didn't get what I wanted. I think especially because I made myself really vulnerable to the Destiny chick about being so open about how nervous she made me feel, and I still got declined.

But I probably had some base mindset and entitlement that "oh if I make myself vulnerable, she will DEFINITELY let me escalate". In retrospect, I probably shouldn't have gone for a makeout right after putting her hand on my heart because she reacted in kind of a closed off way (she asked me if I was okay, as if something was wrong with me). There's no entitlement here. I literally forgot the basics of compliance that @pancakemouse had posted on my log a few weeks ago because I was so desperate and didn't think I'd get anything otherwise: viewtopic.php?p=30585#p30585

Adrizzle wrote: ↑

Tue 2022-03-29 18:18

You should have asked what she thought you were hiding.

I had asked her several times, and she couldn't come up with anything. I kept just telling her that I thought she was cute and I wanted to kiss her, because I didn't really know what I was supposed to say either, and that's what I wanted.

Thanks for the reply @countingsheep7878

countingsheep7878 wrote: ↑

Wed 2022-03-30 15:09

Seeding dates in person may help improve your flakiness or at least won't get a dead number because you will screen them out before they give you the number which they were going to ghost on.

I've done this before and noticed pretty much no difference in terms of flakiness unfortunately. Actually I tend to do this anyway and I pitch a date idea and if the girl doesn't seem down I don't go for the contact.

countingsheep7878 wrote: ↑

Wed 2022-03-30 15:09

Starting with normal approaches. When you go to close and get a number show her your phone and make sure you got the number right (insert some cute funny phrase around her name. My last one was Alexandra stylish picnic girl. This was referencing 2 call backs to our conversation. Another thing you can do is hand her your phone and have her put your number in.

I don't think incorrect numbers were my issue. I used to actually just call myself on the girl's phone but I switched back to sending my name when I got the contact because it seemed pretty weird.

I've not gotten an instadate to meet up with me for a subsequent date before. And tbh I was only doing them because I wasn't getting any regular dates. I honestly think I'm doing something wrong on approaches and/or I don't meet the looks threshold for most of the girls I got a contact from.

I'm really not sure what's going on, which is another reason I'm moving back to Nashville and I'll be focusing way more on elite body and nightgame. I think nightgame basically exposes every social skills issue you have very plainly, and it's more likely there will be dtf girls on the spot.

Next time I get a date or I'm in some high tension situation I'll try your kiss advice.

Feels nostalgic af to be writing "colgate's nashville log" for the subject again.

Moved in to Nashville last weekend, this time with Troy and @lacroix . And I'll be here for the next 11 months.

My main goal now will be elite body. I'll be posting in my bulk log sporadically because I don't want to have a log that's just counting calories (omg just kidding @goldfish !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i love u). But I've been lifting weights 4x a week and going to the boxing gym 2x a week so far. Reason for the focus on elite body is because I literally want to be this guy and have girls react to me like this:


Guys here might say I already look attractive enough. And girls have even told me "omg don't get all muscly" blah blah. But I've met plenty of guys in game so far and have seen how much looks does impact results. For myself, I see focus on elite body equivalent to some obese guy losing fat, even if I might be of an average fitness level already.

It's not enough. I want girls to find me as irresistible as I find them right now.

Anyway, I knew moving in with two guys who also go out and game would also push me to do that as well, so I will also be focusing on nightgame. Because I'm in one of the best places to do nightgame, and I'm already somewhat familiar with it from being here back in October.

Nightgame
Lots of "holy shit I can't believe I'm back on Broadway" emotions walking down the street on Thursday night.

My last log involved me talking about how I don't like having conversation at night. Turns out I actually don't "hate conversation at night" at all, I just don't start off the night by genuinely having fun and enjoying myself.

We live in a time and age where you can literally exchange sheets of paper for inebriating drinks and dance to music recorded and produced on silicon bricks with flashing lights for the low price of showing up to a freaking club. Humanity is better than it's ever been. We'd all have to hunt for food 30000 years ago and be wondering if we'll even survive the next day. People literally show up to clubs and bars to celebrate the abundant society humans have achieved. And maybe the lack of awareness and even perhaps feeling like I contributed nothing to it personally (which isn't even necessarily true) translates into feeling like an alien at these places. But it's like, that doesn't matter. I still enjoy probably the most delectable fruits humanity has ever grown throughout history in the year 2022.

So my new mindset is literally just fistbump and cheers as many people as possible when I walk into a place. Doesn't matter if it's a guy or girl, young or old, just anyone. I'm walking into these places grateful that I live in a time where I can enjoy this kind of club environment in the first place.

Within like 2 minutes of the first place I walked into, some chick latched onto me and started drawing "tattoos" on me with a marker, introduced me to some of her friends, and then gave me a kiss on the cheek out of nowhere and I snapped it.

And I had several other conversations and approaches and got a couple snaps here and there. I won't literally document every interaction I had, but any feelings of "I hate talking to people at night" literally vanished when I walk into places trying to make myself known to as many people as possible and getting on the same celebration wavelength as everyone else.

Huge contrast from the ironically lonely nights I had in Nashville back in October where I felt I didn't understand these people in the first place. But I'm starting to see the stepping stones now.

On Daily/Regular Logging
I was thinking to my time when I was in Nashville previously. Despite being depressed for most of the month after getting booted off the university campus and none of my contacts going anywhere, I was still going to the gym regularly, getting work done, keeping on track with my diet, and even still approaching girls at different venues semi-regularly, and trying to go out alone at night.

The fact that I logged all of it made me remember that I was doing all that because I honestly wouldn't have remembered otherwise, since that month felt like a total blur. And there were a few days I just posted something like "just posting this for accountability".

I've also seen how @Spider Jerusalem bounced back after a long series of "continuity posts". Initially I thought, wait what's the point of this. Like why is the goal to just post on the forums every day. But then out of nowhere he starts going on a bunch of dates and getting hookups. Which made me realize that in one of my lowest times since I'd been on the forums, just logging what I did today at least made me feel like I had to be accountable for something, and I managed to still stay consistent with gym/diet and jettison back into action in November with dating.

I think maybe the reason I wasn't logging as much as I used to was some sense of "fuck, I always have to have some sort of story if I want to post on here...or else I don't have the right to post". Which is completely made up nonsense, but it is what I felt. I'm just not at that stage in my life, especially with dating, where I can just be like "hey I'm only going to post about cool stories on my log". It's also a disservice to myself, because I always read people's logs and wonder "how the fuck did they get to that point. how are they doing this shit." since you tend to start omitting out details of things you take for granted. The stories are cool and you love to hear them as motivation, but you're still always like "please tell me how the FUCK you got to this point".

Wasting my life
Which brings me to why I'm even writing this in the first place.

As I said in my previous post, I just moved into Nashville a bit over a week ago. I have been going to the gym (4x a week), boxing (2x a week), bulking (2300-2800 calories, 160g+ protein every day), and going out at night (3-4x a week).

But I know I'm wasting the rest of my time doing jack shit. It's mostly frying my own brain with watching YouTube videos all day. It literally feels like vaping again, minus the actual vape. In other words, I'm just pleasuring myself for doing nothing. Maybe it's more like I'm numbing my brain from confronting discomfort too, but it's not like my sedated self would figure that out in this state. Anyway, it's basically the same state I was in right before I made this post 2 months ago: viewtopic.php?p=28745#p28745

What am I doing??? I need to get back into some sort of grind mode. I don't know with what, but I feel way better and shit just starts lining up when I'm actually grinding. And yeah I've been going to the gym and bulking blah blah, but that shit should just be part of my daily routine anyway, for the rest of my life. What am I doing with the other 10+ hours that I'm awake? Exactly.

Even if my effort->outcomes ratio is extremely low (in general) when I'm in grind mode, some good shit always happens. Since I've joined the forums it's gotten me exposed to a LOT of great guys I will be eternally grateful for, a bunch of dates (whereas I had zero in my life previously) and makeouts, and I know I've even gotten 2 dormant guys "back in the game" just from them seeing me hustle. And all my effort up until now has landed me in a place where I'm in 24/7 contact with one of the best mentors for dating and another guy who hustles as much as I do and takes the same amount of risks, and also happens to be conversely good at the things I need to work on. I've got a guaranteed 11 months in this position, so I've got to do my part in this.

I know I'm putting off many tasks and many things I want to start getting into, and wasting my time with pointless crap instead. It's not a matter of what tasks they are, but I'm not doing them because I'm satiating myself with YouTube videos.

Unlike vaping (where I replaced it with candy) and fapping (...I just talked to girls), I'm not really sure what to replace YouTube with. Maybe I'll go cold turkey (I've done that in the past and weaned myself off of it). But usually every time I've gone off of YouTube, it's because I had something else going on in my life (or I was getting free dopamine from elsewhere).

The only thing I can think of for now is starting a daily log again. I'm hoping the embarrassment of posting that I did jack shit will probably incentivize me to have more days I feel proud of, instead of days I feel I'm wasting.

(only excuse I have for the past 2 days is I somehow got super sick and spent all day sleeping yesterday. Still went to the gym. Ended up missing boxing today from sleeping, but decided to go to the gym late at night instead. Haven't really hit all my calories specifically in the past 24 hours though)

MakingAComeback wrote: ↑

Wed 2022-04-13 17:53

you can watch youtube etc but why not consume the stuff that gets your mind and subconscious right so you SLAY in life

Yeah, funnily enough that has been the majority of what I've been watching. Self-improvement videos, and motivational type content. Mainly Hamza Ahmed and the recent trend of "Zyzz inspirational" meme videos.

But a couple problems:
1. You can still watch "too much" good content, but still go nowhere. ie: you can delude yourself into thinking you're being "productive" and "this is fine" because it's "self-improvement related" without actually taking action .
2. I realized I fell back into just general entertainment, and watching way too much of that, in lieu of focusing on many tasks I have to do, such as work. I feel like if my days are just me wasting my own time, I become depressed, and that definitely starts to reflect in my interactions with people and my body language/behavior becomes avoidant in general, because I'm "guilty" of my "uselessness" in that moment

I mainly wrote the above post to see if holding myself accountable to daily logging will help with actually taking action again, especially when I haven't exactly figured out what it is. Though I have specific things I need to do outside of gym/diet/nightlife such as work and getting back with the other social circle I had here in Nashville. So it's probably going to be more freeform, but I don't want to come in here like "just watched 6 hours of YouTube guys but at least I went to the gym and ate my calories lol"

I hate trying to portray myself as "omg I'm so different", but I've rarely found my archetype of socially disconnected here on the forums. I think the average person on the KYIL forums is very socially attuned and aware, and emotionally in touch, probably so socially attuned that it cripples them from even "taking action" in the first place.

On the other hand, in the daygame chat (where I'm basically dormant now), the chat is basically full of socially disconnected guys. So it made sense that I was initially allured to that group, not realizing a lot of the ideologies touted there are actually ineffective (which is something I probably would have realized if I wasn't so socially disconnected in the first place).

I have almost zero awareness of how my behavior comes off to other people. My communication skills are atrocious, and I bang my head at the wall as to why "doing x thing" is wrong. It's like I'm literally socially impaired, like borderline autistic, even though I'm not.

Whenever I read about or learn about "certain social skills", I always process it as "oh you just do this surface level thing and it works out?", and somehow when I ask that I always get the "no you're missing the point dude" response, and I'm continually flummoxed. Meanwhile, I endlessly toil away and have no idea what the fuck I'm doing is wrong. I'll get feedback and pointers from people and try to implement them, but ultimately even after implementing them it feels like that wasn't enough and then it's back to square one.

Like how can I be so fucking retarded socially to not pick up on basic emotions, especially from girls. From my point of view, in the moment, girls are just randomly into me, and then out of nowhere they just flip out of nowhere and lose all interest. And it's not just girls, I've had the same with friends before.

And then I can reflect on my actions and be like "okay, yeah I fucked up this specific thing here". And then I try to remember not to do that for next time, and perhaps progress past that point a little bit, but then I somehow always take the worst possible path again, and fuck the next step up too, and then I tumble down and crash 5 steps back and I have to try to figure out how to not only get back to where I was previously, but be faced with the same problem I had earlier again. I guess the entitlement of "well I'm this far though, so why am I so far behind, I need to catch up" gets me really impatient, and then I become super sloppy trying to claw back to where I was previously, but because I'm being so sloppy, my "results" are even worse than before.

^wow writing the above paragraph made me realize this issue permeates beyond dating and girls and is a huge reason I tend to brickwall at a lot of things in general.

Literally failed the "do a daily post" thing after 2 days. You can see why I usually don't like saying what I'm going to do before I actually do it. Anyway, I have a lot of shit in my life to sort out logistically (routines, priorities, etc) and hopefully I'll be able to come on here and say I've got it more or less together (like I did back in August-September when I first joined the forums). Only things I've been consistently doing are going to the gym and eating enough calories.

Anyway mainly came on here to post about this nightgame session I just had.

Nightgame
I kissed 3 girls in one night over 30 approaches with the line "I've never kissed a girl before. Do you want to be my first?". But the real first was that I got slapped in the face.

I know more experienced guys at night are like "ugh nothing tonight just a bunch of makeouts and numbers" but I'm nowhere close to that stage yet.

Before I went out tonight, @lacroix and I were literally watching the weebiest possible high school slice of life anime for hours and shooting the shit.

But he's had an obligation to himself to do GLL nightgame drills every day this weekend. I've not been focusing on approach at all lately because I'm trying to do more self-improvement instead for a while, but I've tagged along on a few sessions. Tonight I decided I would just also do the same drills.

We did the drills and then decided to just come up with random challenges/drills for each other. lacroix had the idea of "how about for the next Asian girl you see, you go up and tell her you've never kissed a girl and you want her to be your first kiss. then I'll do the same". Note that we're in Nashville, so there's probably 1 Asian girl for every 60+ non-Asians.

In the meanwhile we had come up with stuff like "go talk to that group of girls halfway in the line and try to cut by just talking with them a bunch" and "let me get a picture with you to make my ex jealous". We also went back and forth with the kissing line when we saw the wild Asian girl. But at some point we just decided to just do the "I've never kissed a girl before" line on any girl, and we'd do it 5 times each.

lacroix ended up kissing some white girl standing by herself drinking outside by a lightpole on his like 3rd approach. We were both like "holy fuck that actually worked???" and lacroix told me that I'd get the same if I did it over at least 20 approaches. So I got to work.

There was this group of girls taking some pics so I approached one of them with the line. One of the girls was like "that's nasty!" and I just looked at her and said "no it's not". Immediately I got a pretty solid whack to the face and I dipped.

It kind of put me in overdrive for a bit, but then around 14~16 approaches in, I started feeling demotivated. But I was like well I literally just saw this work right in front of my eyes so let's keep pummeling anyway.

I approached some cute black trio. The girl's friend started pushing her to kiss me and so we kissed. Then I was basically like "hey lacroix it freaking worked holy shit!!!!!" and he pushed me to get a snapchat from them like "okay this is like 100% chance rejection, but do it anyway". So I went up and asked for her snap and got rejected, and they walked off but not a minute later they turn around, and the third girl in the group is like "hey she wants a kiss too!!!!", referring to the girl that pushed her friend to kiss me. So I got 2 of the 3 girls from that trio.

A few approaches later, I had made 2-3 seconds of solid eye contact with an even cuter black chick with her background npc white friend. I approached. She was like "really? you've never had your first kiss?". I said "yeah" while looking at her in the eyes and she brought my chin into her and actually gave me a really good kiss, like it was the first few seconds of a makeout. It was like god damn alright. (the other two were like basically closed mouth lip touches).

There was more random crap that happened throughout the night but I don't feel like writing every single thing that happened so that's it for now lol.

Since most of what I've been doing is trying to bulk and I'm not really doing anything special, I'll just be doing updates whenever I run into something big for me.

Last night, Troy brought home 2 white girls from nightgame while lacroix and I were just chilling on the couch. They seemed to be in "party" mode so we just hung out in the kitchen for a bit and took some shots.

One girl then pointed at each of us like:
(at Troy): ur calm
(at lacroix): ur calm
(at me): ur nervous

lol uh, I mean she wasn't wrong. But it was like she was aware of that before even I was actively aware of it myself. And if you've seen my log, this isn't the first time I've run into a girl who's perceptive and verbalizes exactly what she thinks I'm feeling to me.

I didn't even have any intent of "making anything happen", I was just trying to be social. But the mere presence of girls (even not really my type) just automatically made me nervous and closed-off I suppose. Not a minute prior to these girls entering, lacroix and I were literally (jokingly) complaining about how we wanted to be in Asia and we were simping over random Asian girls on YouTube/Instagram, completely relaxed, and then these girls came out of nowhere.

Anyway, the girls put on some music and when there's music playing, I have a habit of subtly grooving to the beat. The girl noticed it and started cheering me on and I started dancing a little bit in the kitchen. Then lacroix went to sit on the couch and Troy started talking to the other girl and it was just me and the "perceptive" girl.

She was complimenting my body and feeling my thighs and my muscles. Strangely, this did nothing for me. I didn't feel "less nervous" or "better", but I didn't feel worse either. Then she was asking why I was so nervous and tense. I joked around it saying how I'm a swimmer and in the water I'm completely fluid and etc blah blah.

^ Quick tangent, I think her compliments didn't make me feel anything partially because the girl wasn't really my type, but more importantly I don't feel like I'm anywhere close to where I want to be regarding looks. So I realized that maybe while some people find me attractive, I don't find me attractive yet. And I honestly don't want to just do the mindset exercises where you tell yourself you're attractive because I would rather just be super bulky and jacked. I don't want girls to think I'm attractive, I want girls to find me hot, irresistible, like they can't control themselves around me. I think I finally understand the feeling a lot of other guys feel when they "don't deserve it" regarding girls being attracted to them. I suppose you need to reach your own standards regarding looks before you can actually enjoy validation from it.

Also, another reason I don't "feel much" about compliments regarding my looks is because I've gained a new habit of thinking "oh you think I'm attractive now. but when are you going to flip and realize I'm weird. when are you going to block me from escalating. when are you going to stop feeling attracted to me when I try to do anything". That's what many of my experiences have been over the past 9 months.

Anyway, eventually us 5 went to the balcony. More random shooting the shit, but Troy was really close with the other girl. The perceptive girl wasn't particularly with me but I wasn't really dominating the interaction anyway. Later, lacroix went to his room and not long after Troy went to his room with the other girl so it was just the two of us.

I was playing some music from my laptop and we were dancing in the living room and she was grinding on me for a bit. But then we went to the balcony and started having some "deep conversation" about some bs that I don’t really remember. She kept telling me I'm "too intense" and I need to "let go". I wasn't even trying to escalate much because I was literally trying to chill out. I did try to get closer to her on the balcony and “take it slow” but she started pushing me away with “I’m with someone~~” while continuing the “deep conversation”.

Later we sat on the couch and listened to some more music for a bit and she was putting her hands on my thigh and etc but when I tried to put my arm over her she pushed it away. So I just decided to go to my room with my laptop. But she followed me into my room.

Then her friend texted her that “we need to leave…now…” (she showed me the text convo). I guess she didn’t want to keep going further with Troy or something so the girl I was with knocked on Troy’s door and then those 3 walked out of the apartment while I stayed back.

While they were walking about the girl I was with was apparently giving Troy weird looks and said “so what was THAT about?” I don’t remember the exact words but I think she was referring to me, maybe also whatever was going on in Troy’s room, I don’t know. But more importantly, I think a lot of her reactions were about me.

You have to be a normal guy
I wrote up this experience because it revealed to me directly from a girl herself what I should be working on. I can’t deny that this girl was attracted to me physically, yet completely turned off by my vibe.

Here’s a picture of me from 2017. Never lifted a weight in my life and couldn't even do a pullup. Obviously, I look way more attractive now than I did in this picture. But my personality is still this weirdo. It’s like this girl from last night saw my outward appearance, but it almost didn’t matter because my behavior ended up somehow coming off like this guy. And truth be told, I really haven’t changed that much personality-wise from this guy.

People on the forums and in real life have repeatedly told me that my looks are really not holding me back as much as I think they are, rather my vibe and behavior are. I thought that you could get away with “any vibe” if you look elite. And I’m certainly nowhere close to elite, but I’m only holding myself back by trying to completely ignore working on basic social skills .

Here’s a random list of things I need to work on specifically:
- Stop getting overly excited and suddenly talking loudly out of nowhere (probably due to overstimulation). I think I talk loudly often in general because I’ve felt no one would pay attention to anything I’m saying otherwise.
- Stop dragging out syllables like I’m from California and gay. I have no clue why I somehow have a weird gay accent, maybe it’s just from naturally being timid and liking feminine energy (oh I’m the gay one? But u like watching sweaty dudes wrestle it out on a mat….. I like watching cute Chinese cartoon girls have fun)
- Understand basic “social structure” and small talk. To contrast, I feel way more confident speaking Japanese (at least initially), because the first 2-5 minutes of the conversation are always the same and predictable for me (omg ur Japanese is so good lol!!!! How long have u learned it??? Where did u learn it?? Why did u learn it????), plus I get a bunch of positive feedback literally just for speaking the language. In English, I feel like I have to crawl my way to “ok this guy is cool”, since I’m not automatically “cool” for demonstrating fluency in a foreign language I’m not expected to know. Until I feel anywhere close to “comfortable” I’m basically “nervous and intense” like the girl was saying.
- Stop interrupting people. I think I do this for two reasons: either I think the other person is going on a tangent that’s not related to the topic of discussion (even though I do that all the time!), or I’m so insecure that I’ll forget what I have to say, if I don’t say it now, it will never be said.
- Being generally inconsiderate. I’m naturally insensitive because I’ve felt like no one gave a shit about “my feelings” so I learned how to naturally block out a lot of information that I don’t want to process as “noise”. The “upside” is I don’t get offended by much, and I’m completely numb to loud noises (I can sleep anywhere). This is probably why I ended up “getting over” approach anxiety very quickly and could blast out dozens of approaches every day for months, I just don’t pick up on as much information that other people do that would make me anxious in the first place. But I’ve discovered this is a coping mechanism, because when I am aware of something, I get overly stimulated and hyper-anxious about it. And my general social anxiety has actually increased lately in novel ways as a direct result of experiences I’ve had over the past 7ish months. This is a good thing, I have to gain awareness. You could think of my situation as I started a step behind approach anxiety; I wasn’t even aware of what could make people anxious in the first place (and as a result, did a lot of things to make girls uncomfortable without being aware of it).

I just thought of some things off the top of my head I’ve been repeatedly told over the years that somehow have never changed. Like I’d been hearing some of them since I was a teenager from my parents, from my friends in college. The reason I have so much resistance to improving these things is because I’ve told myself it’s too hard. How can I always be conscious of it??? How do you even address some of these things, it’s so vague?

I had to force myself to sit down and write these things down in this log so I can’t forget it. Of course I still will work towards getting an elite body because that’s just part of my daily routine. But the majority of my self-improvement should be targeted towards fixing the above.