brown shogun classic: 2021-2023

@Manganiello I'll outline this in a future post. A lot of my dates were probably junk (like my junk contacts) because I just screened in girls who wanted to be friends and not enough for sex. I'm starting to invite girls for drinks or coffee (if under 21) instead of donuts but I need more data on that before I can write anything of value.

All I can say is having 2-3 minute conversations with girls on the approach and talking about taking them out for e.g. drinks helped, rather than going for the contact in 20-30 seconds. Also I don't act ultra pushy as much anymore.

EDIT:
You want to be real with a girl you're talking to. Girls already know when you're hitting on them, whether it's directly or indirect and being "indirect" in some way is basically an automatic turnoff as far as I can tell. I mention this because it's something I've talked about earlier in my log: projecting your genuine energy in your current emotional state during your approaches, whatever it is in the moment. Here's that post: viewtopic.php?p=23546#p23546

I think recently I've been able to do this without consciously thinking to do it.

Some of my log posts, and probably more of the ones to come, are things I wish I could have made known to my 16-20 year old self. If I could rewind time and make him aware of what reality is, it would change the course of his life. But I can’t do that, so writing about it retroactively is the only thing I can do. This is one of those.

When I was around 16 years old, I asked a female friend to be my girlfriend. She told me she'd give me an answer after school ended. So I waited outside the hall by her classroom where we'd usually meet up to hang out. I waited until school ended and then she didn't come to our usual spot. Confounded, and for whatever reason, I decided to wait for another hour. Somehow, even at that time, I knew she exited out the other end of the hallway, but part of me had this hope that she would magically appear and say yes. Or maybe at least she'd appear and tell me no. I think much later over text, she told me no, though we still hung out since we were friends (but it didn't last very long). This experience has stuck with me for a long time (mainly because I think I'd only asked maybe 3 girls out in my life at that point).

I wasn't actively thinking about that experience when I went out tonight, but I approached a bartender who was cleaning some tables tonight with cuddly frizzy hair. I was straight up showering her in compliments and playing with her hair and nuzzling into it and she was giggling and acting receptive. I even straight up told her I just want to cuddle this hair and fall asleep on it. I asked her to meet up later tonight and she said to come back around closing (2 am). We exchanged, and I decided just to indulge in the brief moment I interacted with her for the rest of the night. I think I only did one approach with Troy and @lacroix after meeting up with them later for fun.

Taking rejections is standard and extremely easy when girls just instantly blow you off. You hadn't even invested more than 10-45 seconds into it, who cares? Maybe you'll exchange and she'll ghost you. Who cares, you have hundreds of other contacts in your phone. Maybe she'll ghost mid-text conversation. Who cares, you have some other girls who do actually agree to meet up with you for a date. We can go on down the line and talk about how much we don't care about girls ghosting farther and farther down the interaction.

As I was walking down the street, I was thinking, either this is going to be some magical experience where I somehow waited it out for 3+ hours and she still met up afterwards, or this is going to be one of the hardest rejections I'll be dealing with since I started approaching, mainly from a point of actually having to invest more than a few minutes into it, having no other options available, handling that, not getting "sad", and moving on. That is to say, I deliberately decided to hold out and be singularly obsessed with this one girl for a few hours, just to spike the potential "blowback" of the rejection that might happen, and then be forced to handle it.

I went back around 2 am, and she walked back in from somewhere and touched my chest on the way back in. I'm like alright. I waited out for around another hour, ate a gyro and chatted with some friends and random people on the street. I got bored after an hour and still saw her inside, so I just sent her a text to hit me up when she's done with work. She replies instantaneously with "K." I'm like, wow she actually responded? Alright. I go home and chill for a bit.

She never responded for the rest of the night.

Maybe I'll re-approach her when I see her again. Maybe she'll respond tomorrow. Who knows? Doesn’t really matter. I’ll probably experiment with this one and see what happens and how her reactions change over time. Or I’ll get banned from that bar for harassing her and her cuddly hair.

Many guys, especially those inexperienced with women, put things like “destiny” on a pedestal. We’ll over-invest in a single girl because she’s “so special” to us. I’m of the belief that women simply don’t operate this way, and neither she nor the universe cares about how “special” your encounter was with her. If anything, you’re just another guy out of the many who has come up to her in some way. So for your own sake, it’s best not to inflate how “deep” the “connection” was with a girl. It doesn’t matter to her and it shouldn’t matter to you. The girl you sometimes hang out with in your class just sees you as perhaps a fun person to chat with now and then, and if you haven’t somehow already made it more obvious to her that you want something more, then be prepared for a reality check when she starts talking to other guys and even dating them. And maybe you already realized that, and you did something to try to take things a step further. She’s probably not going to want to take things further with you, and it can be extremely painful to see you two go from spending lots of time together to zero over a short period of time.

If you want the woman who will give you the relationship you desire, trying to increase the “quality” of the interaction can only take you so far. This is actually empowering because it frees you from a single girl. In other words, you should be talking to *multiple* women and searching for the one who’s willing to give you the relationship you desire, rather than trying to mould a single woman into being your “one true love” and that you’ll live “happily ever after”. The girl whom you’re so singularly invested in will happily never talk to you again if she’s not interested, and that is often out of your control. As the male, you cannot get “sad” about it, and if you want to be happy you must move on and talk to more girls.

Daygame
Sunday 11/21:
2#/15~20
mileage highlight: First 15+ approaches were just clean rejections. No aggressive or instant deflections, just normal ones. Then some latina with a nice body agrees on the approach to meet me up for drinks later that night since she happened to be going to 6th street anyway (but she ghosted when I contacted her later, through text and a call).

The next approach was probably the diciest approach interaction I've ever had so far. It looked like a normal trio, but then I saw them join a larger group of like 8+ people. In addition, I accidentally bumped into one of the other girls in the group when they suddenly stopped in front of me. Decided to persist and open the girl I originally was targeting. She awkwardly inches away at each thing I say. Some friend from the 8+ group interjects with "how old are you?" I say 25. "well she's [!@)@!(&%@*(!]"

Approach after that was where @lacroix saw some cute asian girl, ultra my type, working inside an ice cream shop and dared me to open her.

Didn't buy any ice cream. Had to wait 2-3 minutes for some guy to order ice cream before I approached. Then both employees went inside. I went up to the counter and a male employee came out. Told him I wanted to speak to the girl. He brings her out and she says she's actually the manager. We have a short chat and then I ask her out for drinks. She says she's 19 and asks how old I am. I say 25. She's like uhhhhhh.......I say yeah, we can grab a coffee that's fine. Exchanged and told me "we can hang out some time" (which I attach zero meaning to). Post I wrote last night is extremely relevant to this approach (that experience happened after this one chronologically). Just need to make sure I avoid singularly investing in girls, even though deep down I still want to.

Monday 11/22:
7#/25 + 1 instadate
I did this session on zero sleep. First time I've ever done that. Just channeled whatever crazy tired energy I had into the approaches and straight up told like 3-4 girls I was so tired during the interaction.

Every girl whom I exchanged with said they were going home for Thanksgiving, but I decided just to exchange anyway and maybe text them next week. I'm already approaching so no point in not exchanging I guess.

Instadate was a total accident. I approached some Chinese girl sitting at a table playing with her phone with a finished tea.
"hey I saw you sitting here and I thought you were cute"
"...?? you can sit here yes"
"huh? I said you were cute"
"????"
"I came up to you to tell you were cute"
"I don't give my telephone number to strangers"
"whoa, you're like 10 steps ahead of me!!! alright, let me grab a tea and sit with you"

Order my tea, go sit with her and chat. At first we chat in dumbass English for 5 or so minutes but she gets used to the flow. It's basically just question->answer->question->answer the entire time. Said she's a graduate student studying electrical engineering. My tea takes like 10 minutes but finally it arrives. I come back and sip it for a bit. Ask what she's doing for the rest of the day. She tells me she's free for the rest of the day, so I just ask her "you wanna just walk around outside?" and we bounce.

My intention now is to just walk her 8 blocks to my car and see what happens. On the way I tell her we can go chill at my place and listen to some music. She's like "oh, I have class at 4pm and then I have to meet my supervisor at 5pm." Solid, she was free until I put the idea in her head that we're going to my place. I tell her "look it's 3:15 right now, my place is a 5 minute drive from here and I can have you back by 3:50 so you're not late for class". She declines so I'm like alright. Here, I basically just had the intention of continuing to walk to my car and trying to see if she'll come with me.

I also asked her if she's in town this week and if she wants to meet up for drinks. She at first tells me she doesn't drink alcohol, and then I say we can just go get coffee instead. Later, I bring the idea up again and she's like "I only drink alcohol with female friends". Interesting lol.

But about 3 blocks away from my car, she's like "let's go that way to this other building and hang out" I tell her that we should go to my place and listen to music instead. She says let's go to that building instead. <- I think in retrospect at this point I should have just ended the date and exchanged here, but I just wanted to see where we would go next. But I think I'm using "what will happen next" as an excuse to not "burn the bridge", especially since deep down, I'm fantasizing that classroom makeout I had nearly 2 months ago back in Nashville where the girl pulled me into the classroom. I need to accept that something like that is a once in a lifetime experience and I was extremely lucky that it somehow happened within ~250 lifetime approaches. I need to do what I want to do now, push when I can, and then burn the bridge just before I'm entering the girl's "frame".

I end up going to that building and there's a lot of people so after probably <5 minutes I'm like yeah okay that was a waste of time. She tells me maybe 1 or 2 times if I'm bored I can leave. So we end up exchanging and I leave.


This "accidental" instadate made me realize that in my current situation, instadates are actually basically the same as regular dates. I was making excuses that I wouldn't be able to pull, and regular dates are somehow better. For some people that might be the case, but after going on 4-5 dates last week and then having this instadate, I realized that regardless of when I met the girl, she's going to see me in the same way. Her interaction with me has wholly been my approach up until the date (insta or regular), so there's no difference for me right now. This is something Mike Mehlman talks about here: https://mikemehlman.net/2021/11/08/focu ... nstadates/ but I didn't realize it myself until I actually had some regular dates where I have A+ pull logistics. Whether my place is literally 1 block away or a 5 minute drive, the girl's resistance to my pull attempts doesn't change.

I also have a couple options of pulling on campus. It can be my place, my car, or even her place on campus. I can just wing it depending on the interaction. Also, I can screen a girl's logistics for the day before proposing the instadate during the approach to make sure we would have enough time before deferring to a regular date and exchanging.

I'm excited to approach now with this renewed focus on instadates. Unfortunately, the school session is going to end within 1 or 2 weeks so I have little time. But I can still get a decent amount of sessions to get mileage and meet new girls.

Another thing I need to keep in mind is that my focus is sleeping with the girl . Not kissing her, not cuddling her, sleeping with her . As you can often see in my log, I get too excited and satiated with "sub-milestones" that don't actually achieve my end goal.

Just to note, I stopped trying to arrange concrete future date plans on the approach, and now the need to do that has dissolved. The ghost/cancel rate isn't somehow better with making plans in advance. But I still ask what they're doing that week just to get a general idea of their logistics and when a good time to text them to make plans would be.



Later that day, @lacroix is eating at a restaurant again where I opened a waitress and she (obviously) ghosted: viewtopic.php?p=24002#p24002 . I've never deliberately re-approached a girl so I just wanted to do it. I go up to her and start chatting for 30 seconds, and her white knight beta cuck manager shows up and tells her "hey can you help me with something" to save her from me eventually pulling her to my place someday. Alright, alright. Well deliberate re-approach is off of my bucket list.

Daygame
Total: 5#/15
Low volume at the campus because it's Thanksgiving week.

First approach told me she was going home for Thanksgiving (or so I gleaned) but later she texted me unprompted (I only text my name on the approach so they have it) like "sorry for getting back to u so late! today just happened to be the day i was moving back home " I still don't know if she is actually moving but I texted back "when are you coming back?" just to confirm if she literally meant moving from Austin, with no response so far. It's like let's text this guy we would have otherwise ghosted if we didn't have some logistical impossibility of meeting up.

Also was tailing this girl for like 3 minutes loudly talking about pickup with Troy. Much later after we lost her, we saw her walk into a bar. I walked in, with no intent of buying anything, and then opened her. Troy walked in later and hung out at the bar. She told me she had a boyfriend basically instantly so I left. Troy stayed for another minute or so and then also left. Apparently the bartender was telling the girl "you don't really have a boyfriend, huh?" She was like "no! I really do have a boyfriend, I thought him coming up to me was so cute!" Bartender said that some guy approached her some days ago. Apparently @lacroix and I have been making a dent on the campus haha (not sure if it was he or if I approached her and she forgot who I was).

Date
Girl I approached in a trio earlier today agreed to meet for drinks tonight. She literally told me she's leaving tomorrow so I was like "well how about for your last night we meet up for some drinks".
I showed up 5 minutes before she did and ordered a drink for myself. But I saw her friends walk in with her, and I'm like "I'm about to walk out of here right now". But to my surprise, her friends ditched her to go to another part of the bar and let us be alone. So I decided just to roll with it instead of almost immediately walking.
She grabbed a shot and we talked for maybe 20 minutes. We were talking a lot about alcohol, and then I transitioned into talking about drugs and exes. I decided to try to pull with "well I've got some Absolut Watermelon at my place, let's go there". She declined with "I don't want to go back with you, my friends are here looking for my safety" and I'm like alright. Chatted some more and then talked about music. Went for the Mongolian pop pull, and declined again. I immediately decide, "well introduce me to your friends". This decision was to see what they were like and bounce everyone to another place (I could have perhaps bounced her without them). So we went to another place across the street for some more drinks.
At this point, I'm like yeah there's no way she'll pull so I'll just get physical with her so I can get some scraps out of the date. It was conveniently louder (next time if I have to bounce a girl to another bar, I'm going to go to some loud bar so I can really escalate). Throughout the interaction I was basically fondling her thigh and having my arm around her. At some point her friends show up and tell me "guys our parents called (not hers), we should get going" In my head, I'm like looooool they came to save her.
We walk towards the direction of my place. Right outside my door I try to pull one last time. I tell her "here's my place right here, let's go". She declines.
Conversation outside my door goes something like this:
me: "Look, you're literally leaving tomorrow. There's no second chances in life. You'll never have a chance to see me again. I really want to spend more time with you tonight. We're not going to do anything."
her: "Yeah well my friends and I have to go, but I really want to see you next time I come to Austin"
me: "Alright, well if you want to see me again, you'll have to text me when you come back to Austin"
her: "Yeah, I'll text you again!"
me: "You say that, but I know what's going to happen. You're not going to text me. I'll send you a text later and then you'll ignore it."
her: "No I promise I won't ignore you! I'll text you when I'm back in Austin again!"
Hug her and tell her "let's kiss" (probably could have gone for it without saying, I really need to stop telling girls I'm going to kiss them because it never works. Kiss anxiety lol). She tells me I can kiss her cheek, so I do. Try to go for the lips and she pulls away. Then I walk inside my apartment and they leave.


So I think I was sufficiently forward for the most part on this date and didn't screw anything up (let me know if I did). I say this because if I did everything on my part, then this is actually a mileage date (e.g. there's nothing I could have done to get her back at my place, and hopefully coming up I'll have another pull). I don't think at any point I "blew an opportunity".

Nightgame
Went out for maybe 20-30 minutes with @lacroix . Find a really cute and short late 30s-40s latina chick dancing with her friends in the back. Immediately say what's up and start dancing with her. Lots of ass grabbing and grinding. Also chatted with her friends and kept complimenting her to her and her friends about how cute she was. At some point one friend tells me "okay you've spent enough time with her, she's good" I tell her that I really like your friend and I think she's cute, and basically blow her off and continue. Another friend tells me I'm shaking my ass more than the girl is.
Later she leaves to go buy a drink at the bar. I follow her and ask her to come back with me instead. I think I keep immediately telling girls at night to come back to my place which is probably uncalibrated, I should just bounce them outside instead without telling them and then lead them to my place. Anyway she declines so I'm just like "give me your number" and then I keep groping her ass while we're exchanging.
I tell @lacroix I forgot to pull (I forgot I actually tried to haha), so he literally pushes me back into the bar and forces me to make a pull attempt (again). She's like hugging her friend and not responding to me and her friends say "she shouldn't be having any more drinks" so I just leave. Kind of pointless but just did it for the lolz.

Thanksgiving kind of punted some of my progress because school was out and girls were going home for the break. As an experiment, I texted all 13 of the contacts I had at the time "happy thanksgiving" (I deleted most of my contacts, maybe I shouldn't have, but it is what it is) as an experiment to see who would respond, and then who would follow through with a date. 6/13 responded back. Then, I texted all 13 earlier today my usual "what are you up to this week" and 4 of those ones responded. None of the girls who didn't respond to "happy thanksgiving" responded to "what are you up to this week". I set up a date with 1 of the girls, 1 of them deferred, 1 of them ghosted (for now) after declining drinks because she's under 21, and another one said she was lesbian. Let's say we're lesbian after 10+ messages of text and right after being proposed drinks and not during the approach lol.

Daygame/Nightgame
Friday 11/26:
day 0#/15, night 0/10~15
Haven't had a 0 day for daygame in a while but it was mileage (also I got out late so I didn't get to make as many approaches as I wanted to). Night was pretty standard, a few girls come up to me as I'm dancing, other times I make the initial approach. Girls scurried off at times ranging between me being in the vicinity to me grabbing their waist. Didn't get far enough in any interaction to go for a bounce.

I was totally plastered this night, and I hate being drunk. I'd also rather focus on daygame for a while so I'll probably not go out at night as much.

Sunday 11/28:
3#/10
Cut my session early because I realized I was devolving back into jumping for the close <1min on many approaches. I felt like I was schizzing out during interactions and just wanted to propose the date immediately. I know guys have different experiences with approach interaction length, but as I've talked about in my log, getting a girl's contact means jack shit if she doesn't even know who I am through at least some sort of 2-3 minute conversation (the result of my 20x increase in approach->date conversions).

I took the rest of the day to contemplate why despite being aware of the above and experiencing a week packed with dates, I started to go back into "spam" approaching.
Getting over approach anxiety actually is relatively easy because there are only three discrete outcomes of an approach: rejection, exchange, or instadate. The "worst" one is rejection, and it's not so bad to get over because you can just go talk to another girl.

Getting over "conversational anxiety" is a bit more complex. First of all, you still need to put the work in of going through many instant blowoffs. After x instant blowoffs, you'll get 1 girl who may be willing to have a conversation with you. Obviously if the girl is "hyper receptive", then you will probably be more motivated to have a continued conversation and enjoy talking to her (side note: she may seem "hyper receptive" but then when you go for the close she'll reject you then. but that's okay because you can just part ways and talk to another girl).

I emphasize may , because with many girls, it's not so clear cut as to whether she's willing to have a conversation. That is, unlike the approach itself, you don't have a couple of discrete possibilities; being able to initiate a conversation is more of a gradient. An instant blowoff is a hard no, a girl sitting around bored who's ecstatic when you go up to her is a hard yes. But there are many other situations where you're not really so sure. Maybe her responses are short. Maybe she's walking a little fast, but not accelerating away. Maybe she's with some friends. Maybe she's even acting awkward about it but still engaging you in a conversation. You're reading too much into "signals" from the girl, that you have the "right" to talk to her in the first place. In these situations, you end up just rushing for the date proposal + contact exchange quickly so you don't have to handle the uncertainty of knowing whether the girl is actually willing to talk to you. In other words, you "eject" early ("let's just jump to the close so we can be sure this is a rejection, or she'll give us her number and we can move on instead of sticking it out").

I've heard guys talk about doing short interactions because it makes you seem like "you're a busy man who doesn't want to take up her time". But in my case, my "short interactions" are more like lack of confidence to continue even a short conversation after an open.

A question Troy asked me which cuts through everything I mentioned above is "What reason(s) do girls have to sleep with you?" The whole point of even having a short conversation on the approach is you basically have to be able to show that you're confident and sexual enough for continued interaction to be worth it.

For me, I realized I have almost zero frame. I don't yet truly believe that there's any reason for a girl I approach to eventually sleep with me, mainly because I haven't done it yet. Beyond that, I haven't even established who I am as a person. That's why I'm letting light female resistance during an interaction get to me and I unintentionally try to cater to her or eject quickly.

The only reference I have to having somewhat of a solid frame and being able to push an interaction close to where I wanted it was the time I made out with a girl in the classroom back in Nashville. Leading up to that, I was finally starting to get more "aggressive" deflections (previously, most of the rejections I got felt like "pity" from girls who could tell I was hyper nervous and they would emotionally console me. seeing more of my rejections become aggressive made me feel like I was actually a "threat" and that girls knew that I knew what I was doing), got an initially unreceptive girl to exchange when I realized she was Japanese and switched languages, told this girl "today's the day to be more spontaneous" when she initially declined my instadate proposal, and had a ~1h date where I ended up coming off as some guy she could feel comfortable with. I know that was the case because she told me "I actually like that you're 25 and you have all this life experience" and she was the one who ended up "pulling" me into the classroom.

If I could be like that on more of my approaches, I'll start to see better results. I know I can do it, but I need to more consciously be aware of who I am and always tap into it, rather than just incidentally becoming temporarily confident after having some immediately prior experiences that surface positive aspects of my personality. I think essentially, I feel like my frame is transient so I need to make sure I'm zoned into it more at all times.

Monday 11/29:
2#/10~15 + 2 fake numbers, 0 ID
Experiment with this session was to deliberately prolong conversations as long as possible. This isn't something I plan on always doing because it's unnecessary but I did it to force myself out of my conversational comfort zone, and see what topics would arise. I also went into this session of the mindset that "I'm a spontaneous guy who darts around the country to many cities because I enjoy meeting new people and experiencing new places" (since that is literally what I'm doing). I managed to have like 7~10 minute conversations with some girls (some exchanged, some rejected), and this was valuable for me because now I can go back to 2~3 minute ones where I zone in on topics that arised from today's conversations. Doing this was helpful because then I can be genuinely engaged with the girl instead of just robotically asking questions that I don't care about and I'll have stuff to talk about that I'm interested in during the approach. In my case, I enjoy learning about places the girl has lived in and where she's traveled to, and crazy experiences she's had in other places.

Still having trouble maintaining charisma and not catering/ejecting when the girl isn't immediately receptive, and especially if she's lean unreceptive but not running off. Also, I feel like I'm preemptively trying to justify why I'm talking to her in the first place (mentioning unprompted, "yeah I was just strolling around here and saw you" "oh i'm not actually a student by the way", without her even asking about it). I think I haven't fully resolved one of my deepest issues with approach early on (3 months ago), which was feeling like I have the right to exist in this world, but I'll handle it. Will work on this next session by making my frame "I'm a spontaneous guy who darts around the country to many cities because I enjoy meeting new people and experiencing new places, and you're an attractive girl who's going to be part of my journey".

Date Schedule
Thursday 9pm - girl whom I literally remember zero about that I met on 11/16. my tagline was literally "biology, text in 2 weeks" so it's my fault. excited for my first blind date

pancakemouse wrote: ↑

Tue 2021-11-30 23:21

I'm continually impressed at how self-reflective you are. It's a great trait.

I think since I beat AA by just making myself approach, I've literally treated the process of approaching girls itself to be my form of therapy and self-improvement. Yeah, you could go to a psychologist and try to break down your mental/emotional issues. Yeah, you can go to the gym and improve your style, hair, shoes, and muscles, and that'll definitely get you results and make you feel somewhat better (in addition to passing the looks threshold for more girls).
But the way I see it, each approach I make chips away at deep crystallized issues I've buried away for years, and at some point, yet another one gets exposed. Then I'm forced to confront it in order to continue and improve who I am. There are so many learned behaviors I have which I do without thinking which are detriments for my "game", and I have to discover and unlearn each of them, one at a time.

pancakemouse wrote: ↑

Tue 2021-11-30 23:21

But the sale is getting laid not the numbe

Yeah, this was one of the most important realizations I made from approach. It's okay to come off as the guy who talks to a lot of girls but it's not okay to come off as the guy who just collects a bunch of numbers. You want to be as genuine as you can during a short chat to the girl so you're an actual person behind the number in her phone.
Contact exchange is secondary and incidental to the approach + interaction.

Daygame
Wednesday 12/01:
11#/25+, 0 ID
Applied what I said I was going to do in my last log with cutting back to 2-3 min convos, while zoning in on my "vibe", which was "guy who darts around the country and you're an attractive girl for the ride". Noticed a veritable change in my frame for every interaction. I can say this because I actively noticed several -BSU girls on my approaches for the first time. E.g. girl acts nervous and awkward when I open her, but I care zero and maintain the same energy throughout the conversation. These girls started gradually matching me and getting more energetic as I talked to them and went onto exchange. Conversely, I stopped unnecessarily showering +BSU girls in compliments when they reacted overly positive to my opener. Neither of these were deliberate actions or goals I tried to achieve, rather they were the results of maintaining my frame by not changing how I'm acting based on the girl. My openers were hyper-direct and I hallucinogenically saw myself drawing my bow with my "yo" and sometimes arm tap, waiting for them to have my undivided attention, and shooting them with "you're cute", "you're pretty", "you're adorable", "you're attractive", etc. Didn't stumble over my words at all. And I stopped trying to justify to girls why I'm there on the campus. Didn't profusely apologize to girls I jumpscared, just waited for them to calm down and level out before opening them. Probably one of my best approach sessions to date (extreme positive exchange tilt is just a coincidence btw). Only thing I need to keep myself in check for is not letting "solid frame" be an excuse to be hyper rigid and devolving into robotic approaches again.

Thursday 12/02:
3#/15 + 1 fake, 0 ID
Met up with @Ed_ again. It was fun to bounce ideas off of each other in between approaching. Also discovered some new places to approach thanks to him.
Only approach I really want to mention is this one, probably my favorite one of all time:

"Jumpscare" a girl when I walk up to her on the side and say "yo", wait for her to calm down, open, then she's like "omg you're so bold!". I continue to talk to her, and for each thing I tell her, she's like "omg you're so bold!". After like 45 seconds of talking she says "omg you're so bold! but i kinda have feelings for someone". The way she was saying it made me just want to continue interacting with her and push for like 4+ minutes (don't remember how many times). Literally for 4 minutes, everything she said was prefaced with "omg you're so bold". Eventually I got impatient and left and really regret not just taking her on an instadate by the hand or something. I literally don't know when I'll ever run into a girl like this again which is why I'm hitting myself for ejecting after 4 minutes.

https://v3.fastupload.co/file/10341 <-- audio because I captured exactly how she said "omg you're so bold"

Friday 12/03:
6#/35 + 2 fakes, 0 ID
Short morning session with @lacroix , was like 1#/15 + 2 fakes on campus. Also it was raining. Also I accidentally approached a guy who had wavy hair and earrings and called him pretty. I heard his voice and his name and I instantly ejected. Absolutely solid. You can never tell with these Asians. Maybe it made his day at least.
Later it stopped raining so I went out to the area Ed showed me yesterday and I honestly did more exploring than approaching because the volume was really low. Took me like 3 hours to do roughly 20 approaches (there were periods of medium traffic here and there, and then long periods of like 0 people). I need to figure out when this place has real volume.

Date
21yo american-born chinese, Thursday 9pm, bar. pull+no hookup.
I literally remembered zero about this girl before I met her at the bar, because my tag in my phone was totally non-descriptive with just her major and "text 2 weeks from now". She arrives 11 minutes early . Holy shit???? I arrive 4 minutes early after I see her text that she's arrived. I was guessing she was going to be Asian since I don't usually tag that in my phone. I see some cute Asian girl with glasses standing by herself watching people ride the mechanical bull with a drink. But I decided just to text where she was anyway and then she looks back and spots me. I go up to her and kind of side-hug her since she was kind of against the wall. We sit down and have a chat for 15 minutes. She's pretty receptive to my random physical screening such as periodically putting my arm over her. I decide to play Mario Kart arcade with her for a round just because I wanted to (this bar has arcade games).
Then I bounce to another bar (which was honestly unnecessary, but I just felt like it. next time I won't do this). I mentioned that one of my favorite drinks is gin and tonic and she's never tried it so I order one for her at the second bar. She takes like 30 minutes to finish it and I'm schizzing out (lol not really, I was fine, I just wanted to say I was schizzing out). More random chat, try to get her to dance a bit but she's not into it. Anyway, after she finally finishes her drink, I just walk out with her to my place and she follows me in no resistance. Then she immediately asks where the bathroom is. I'm like "lol fuck, I'm about to get trolled so hard right now". I fiddle with my computer on my bed in the meanwhile.

She walks out of the bathroom on the phone like "you want me to come over right now?" Yup, called it. She walks in my room and tells me she has an "emergency". I won't log the entire interaction but to summarize, she's like "my friend's boyfriend wants to kill himself and he shut off his phone" *gets on phone*
me: "your friend can't talk to him?"
her: *gets off phone* "no I'm the only person who can talk to him" *gets on phone*
me: "stay for 30 minutes and then go"
her: *gets off phone* "let me check" *gets on phone*
her: *gets off phone* "no i think i have to go right now" *gets on phone*

Probably could have just said "ok go", but I decided to walk her out and give her a ride back (it was like 5 minutes away so I didn't really care). She scurries out of my car as soon as we reach.

I don't really care whether this actually happened or if it was just A+ acting (she really did a good job), because either way it's an absolutely amusing troll. If it was real, then the universe trolled me. If it was an excuse, then it's just a standard troll. Things like this happens to guys all the time so it's mileage for me.

What's interesting is that if I somehow were in this situation 3+ months ago, or if it were my first date of my life, I probably would have been hyper-obsessed with this girl and the situation. But thanks to approach, I see it with clarity and care zero. It's like, alright.

Approach Anxiety: Socially Anxious vs. Socially Disconnected
Read this part of my log first about why some guys may see results with "fewer approaches" than others due to previous sexual experience: viewtopic.php?p=23887#p23887

Been contemplating why some guys will inherently have more trouble with approach anxiety than others. I think this journal might provide value to guys trying to figure out why they have to incessantly grind with sustained action to beat their approach anxiety for months, while they perhaps see others overcome it extremely quickly.

Mark Manson proposes two categories of guys in his book "Models": socially anxious and socially disconnected. I'll just post this passage: If tl;dr: Socially anxious guys are hyper-attuned to social norms and pay attention to the emotions of others, sometimes to the point of their own detriment. Socially disconnected guys are often "bold" and "fearless", but only because they are completely unaware/don't care about social norms, and often have trouble connecting with people.

These categories actually highlight why some guys will be able to get over approach anxiety in a relatively short time (e.g.: ~15 hours over a few days), while others can take months or maybe even years. Socially disconnected guys (like me), will have an inherent advantage to getting over approach anxiety, because most of their approach anxiety is mostly things like "I'm going to get kicked out of this place if I'm hitting on girls", "Do I have the right to talk to girls?". Any approach anxiety reasons related to how a specific girl might perceive the approach or otherwise non self-centered reasons are often shallower and are overcome relatively quickly, compared to the deep-rooted reasons. Once a socially disconnected guy overcomes his approach anxiety, he will often be doing approaches that many might perceive as audacious extremely early on (e.g. approach girl sitting at a table in a restaurant with 6 other people). But it should be clarified that it's not out of being inherently "ballsier", it's actually often out of being mostly oblivious to social norms and the emotions of the girl/surrounding people/situation he is in for those approaches. A brick wall socially disconnected guys will hit early on after getting over anxiety and getting their confidence up to where they want it is while they are "confident", they literally don't know what to do (extremely socially uncalibrated).

On the other hand, socially anxious guys will have a much harder time overcoming approach anxiety. I'm not socially anxious myself, but maybe other guys here who perceive themselves that way can chime in about their personal approach anxiety struggles (I would greatly appreciate it actually, since that would make this journal have even more value. Reply to this thread, and I'll edit them into this post. Most of what I'm writing here is how I've observed @lacroix during approach sessions). Since these guys are so hyper-aware of the surroundings and their perception of how the girls whom they want to talk to will judge the approach, there's objectively more baggage to overcome and power through, as opposed to socially disconnected guys. Additionally, they may also have a harder time maintaining frame and their approach interactions will probably be more wildly affected by the girl's reactions (e.g.: being absolutely enamored and "in love" with a hyper-receptive girl while simultaneously taking lots of rejections where they can't even get past "hi" because they *think* the girl is ignoring them and wants to be left alone, when often that may not be the case). Even when they get into approach, they will have a long road of ramping up to more "audacious" approaches (e.g.: can only hit on girls who are doing absolutely nothing, can't hit on a girl in a group, can't hit on a girl walking, etc)

Obviously the above categories are more of a gradient rather than two discrete categories.

A mindset I might be able to provide for socially anxious guys (this was also one thing @Ed_ and I were discussing on Thursday) is that 95%+ of the time, the girl is minding her own business and is completely "oblivious" to the surrounding environment that you've perceived to make approaching her "out of your place". Put more harshly, the universe doesn't care about you and neither does the girl . I say this from a positive perspective as it can potentially alleviate much of the emotional "responsibility" that socially anxious guys may put on themselves. You do your approach, and be firm about it, and then you can have an interaction with her and it'll be alright.

Jacobpalmer123 wrote: ↑

Sun 2021-12-12 02:56

I've also noticed there are a lot of heavy women in my town. How is it in your town?

My old city had more heavy chicks and I basically "had" to approach them because there was no volume and I was working on "approach x chicks per day". In Nashville and Austin it's more balanced, but I'll approach them if I think they have a cute face or large boobs/ass.

Striker wrote: ↑

Sun 2021-12-12 12:22

colgate wrote: ↑

Sat 2021-12-04 13:56

If tl;dr: Socially anxious guys are hyper-attuned to social norms and pay attention to the emotions of others, sometimes to the point of their own detriment.

Damn, this really hit home for me. This describes me completely and I hate it, I need to work on speaking without a filter (or much less of one). I'm gonna buy it anyway but what is your thoughts on the book?

I read it back in May when I hadn't started talking to girls, I need to re-read it now and I'll get back to you.