brown shogun classic: 2021-2023

Daygame
Monday 12/06:
4#/30, 0 ID
mileage highlight: went probably 1#/25 and then I ended up exchanging with 3 of the last 5 girls I approached.

Thursday 12/09:
1#/1
Not even a session, but I'll mention it because it was an interesting approach. Duo and I start chatting for a bit. The girls are like we're going to get ice cream. At first I was like "let's go together", and the girl I was talking to was like we're having a girls' night. But then her friend was like "omg no, go get ice cream with him". So we walked in, ordered ice creams, and the friend followed us. I invited Troy to come over and he started talking to the other girl. Then the four of us sat around outside chatting some more. I set up a date to meet with the girl I approached for Saturday 7pm (which she ended up cancelling) and we exchanged. Meanwhile, Troy was pushing for this other girl's number like 10x with various jokes such as "come on just give me a fake number so I can say I got it" (as an obvious joke). He was hugging and being hyper-physical with this other girl and all of us were laughing and having fun. Eventually we decided to leave and Troy was like "that girl is going to be thinking about me when she's fucking her boyfriend".

I was going to do more approaches but I ended up getting peer-pressured into taking some shots. Had way too many and came back out puking on the sidewalk while sitting on a bench. Couldn't even move my own body and had to be carried into the truck. Then I was over the toilet for like 2-3 hours. Definitely never doing that again loooool.

Friday 12/10:
3#/15, 0 ID
Met up with @Ed_ who showed me another new place to approach. This place has decent volume on the weekends and is pretty close to my place so I can do instadates.

Saturday 12/11:
5#/40, 1 ID, 0 pull.
Went back to the place I went to with Ed on the previous day and had a long day (3+ hours). Most girls I approached were probably older than 30. Thought I was going to have a massive zero day and then around the 15-20th approach I finally exchanged with someone who was doing postdoc at the uni. Alright lol.

I've come to understand that during approach sessions, it's hardly that you're getting rejected, most girls are just closed off. I realized that before I went out today so today couldn't have been a better day to start off with something like 0/15~20. You're merely searching for the girls who are interested in continued interaction. Just like how guys are probably 19/20 times down to derail their whole day to spend time with a girl, reciprocally girls are 19/20 times not down to throw away what they're doing to spend time with a guy. Imagine if even some fairly average girl came up to you like "wanna watch a movie at your place?" with no strings attached. Maybe 90%+ of the time you'd be like, is this a troll? Okay! I'll postpone all my work and other plans. So when approaching, you're looking for the <10% of girls who'd do the same for you.

Instadate was with someone who said she was leaving tomorrow and had to meet a friend later that night so I figured I had enough time. Went to a cupcake+coffee shop and chatted for maybe 20-25 minutes. Then we walked around for a bit. Tried to pull with "let's go ride scooters" (and scootering back to my neighborhood), but she was like "nooo my friend is picking me up and I came here to meet him". We went back and forth for about a minute until she was like "I'm going to walk this way" and then I ejected without exchanging (since she was literally leaving tomorrow). Honestly I could have pushed more.

Almost had a second instadate with a FOB Korean chick who was also visiting literally just today. We walked into a taco shop expecting to maybe get 1 taco each, but it ended up being this "gourmet" tex-mex place. I didn't want to waste a lot of time and money so I explained that you can't just get 1 taco here and that we should leave. She was like "is that okay?" and I said "yeah" and we just left. Then she says she has an "appointment" in half an hour.
me: "what appointment"
her: "a steak appointment"
Interesting choice of words, anyway I decided to tell her we can meet in like 2-3 hours for a drink downtown (because she said the steak restaurant was downtown). We exchanged and then she ghosted when I tried to confirm (text and then call 30 min after the text).

--

Will be going back to my town for a week so let's see if any of my contacts go anywhere after I get back.

I started to write some thoughts here but they're still not ripened yet. Relates to a lot of discussion I've had with Ed over the past week. Will hopefully have some brainblast and write a bit here over the next week.

I'll just link this podcast episode since it's relevant: https://theinnerwinnershow.com/157/

Crisis_Overcomer wrote: ↑

Sun 2021-12-12 17:19

I can't tell you for sure about frame since I think it's mainly a PUA term and I don't have much experience.

I wasn't introduced to cold approach from PUA (actually I was introduced to it from KYIL haha) and I tend to avoid most "pickup artist" advice as most gains from approach come from actually approaching + being forward + being calibrated + self improvement. But I think frame is a good concept. I've come to understand that it means doing what you want to do and not changing your plans/intent based on others.

There are times where it may be in your best interest to break away from your frame, but if you don't know what you want to do (my biggest personal weakness due to lack of experience) and you're not firm about taking the lead, that would be considered no frame/bad frame.

Going to post something positive on my log because I want to preserve this feeling (especially for my future self as I keep approaching and having new experiences).

I've felt tremendous gratitude lately. Before joining the forums, I had already had many advantages in my favor to start working on myself. A remote job that makes good money so I have freedom of location, and a housemate who helped me get through many of my deeper personal issues over some camping trips, occasional drives, and late night house chats. We had basically helped each other dissect a lot of our deep personal issues that inevitably surfaced when we and another friend decided to jettison ourselves out into the middle of nowhere a year and a half ago. The housemate and I have completely different backgrounds and situations, but somehow ended up manifesting many of the same personal issues (ie: women, not feeling like we belong in the world, no social freedom, etc). Weekends out in the middle of nowhere in e.g. West Virginia was probably the best therapy I could have received before coming here to the forums.

Additionally, I've never been through many painful and psychologically damaging relationships that many of my friends have been through. I basically have the privilege of starting my progress with girls from a clean slate; I didn't have to destroy many preconceived notions I had about women and relationships because I essentially had no experience to draw data from in the first place.

I'm also grateful to my parents for working hard in their lives in India and being able to move to the US, and as a result having the privilege of being raised in one of the best countries to live in (at the time). I've never had to see poverty or be worried about whether I'd be able to eat or sleep. Never been in a situation where I think today might be my last day on earth. It's a hurdle I've never had to overcome, and I can more directly take the action I'd like to sooner rather than later.

I'm also at the perfect age to be starting self-improvement and getting good with women. I'm 25 and I can see the best years are ahead of me. I haven't had to face the fact that my body would be deteriorating or my mental capacity/flexibility declining. I truly feel I'm at the genesis of living the life I'd like to live.

I look at many people surrounding me, and I've been especially cognizant of it lately, and can mildly extrapolate to some degree how trapped they must feel. No ability to leave their situation, being unaware of the happiness and lifestyles other people have, and not even having the slightest clue of how they could get out of their daily monotony and misery. It's something you become able to read on people's faces and how they treat themselves.

I remember joining this forum still feeling trapped myself. You can see it in my early logs (examples: viewtopic.php?p=19502#p19502 and viewtopic.php?p=19456#p19456 ). I was frustrated and sad at my self-perceived lack of social freedom. I'm not all the way where I want to be yet regarding that feeling, but I certainly don't feel trapped anymore. This juxtaposition became immediately obvious to me today where I approached a girl in the parking lot with cool nails. She was literally about to enter her car door. Had I waited one more second, we would have never met. I literally felt compelled to approach her. It was like, the total opposite of anxiety. I would have had to actively resist not approaching her (I actually felt that way yesterday when I went to Huntsville, Alabama to hang out with my housemate. There was a cute waitress and I was literally schizzing out from not being able to approach her since I came to that city to hang out with my housemate for the afternoon. Maybe I should have just called her cute anyway without expecting anything in return.). My <25 year old self wouldn't have even comprehended this feeling. The juxtaposition here is that I was literally in this same area 3 months ago, cowering in my head, not being able to go up to random girls I found attractive. Before I even knew about approach, she would have just been a passing thought of "I wish I knew her, I wish she were with me right now", and then I would have gone about my day with a slight sense of dissatisfaction and acceptance that it was something never meant to be. Now at least, I can plant the seed to get to know these girls better.

I thought about why I feel this way now, despite not having many "positive outcomes" yet. It's because I was forced to handle many "negative outcomes" up front. This kind of gratitude isn't something that one could possibly feel from purely positive things happening to them. I remember being in Nashville and despite making out with some girl in a classroom from a cold approach instadate and grabbing 80+ contacts over roughly 300 approaches within around 5 days, getting banned from the university and ghosted by 90%+ of my contacts put me out of approach for 2+ weeks. I had hardly experienced any adversity yet , and this was the needed balance the universe sent me.

Recognizing I could either be zero and quit or try my best despite my low "aptitude", I just decided "fuck this" and moved again and started approaching in a new city instead. The way I'm framing this is despite receiving some "blow" from putting myself out there, I decided to just continue approaching anyway. It's why I had that lucid dream about being on the highway in the desert and how I truly internalized "rejection is mileage". This mindset cementing itself in my brain combined with being in the same location I was before I had all these experiences, yet feeling completely different is why I'm starting to feel gratitude lately. When you can handle negative outcomes and adversity and decide to continue anyway, negative thoughts and events strip away, and all that's left is the positive.

Lately, my current issues have been low self-esteem/self-worth and feelings of "empty confidence". Normally I would have written some long log drilling deep into those issues and dwelled upon them, but I somehow felt like it was unnecessary. I just observed that those thoughts come up, and felt I should let them pass. I'm at the dawn of being a total rock towards adversity in my life. It's an amazing feeling and something I'd never thought I'd feel in my life.

Returned to Austin on Christmas day.

Moving out
I went back to my town with the intent of moving out within a week but I psyched myself out by having some defined outcome. So I spent a week doing absolutely nothing.

Then I realized I was starting to feel like I could sleep all day and work on my computer and do nothing else forever if I wanted to, which is what I did for much of 2021 up until around this summer. It was this feeling of "comfort", and that's when I realized optimizing comfort rather than chasing adversity results in dissatisfaction and regret. You can only grow when you seek discomfort.

Realizing I didn't want to be stuck in my town forever, I got to work on getting rid of my stuff. Rather than giving myself a timeboxed goal and psyching myself out again, I focused on what process will eventually get me to the inevitable outcome that will get my stuff out of the house. I just took it a day at a time, getting rid of the easiest possible thing I could get rid of right in that moment. Turns out it only took me 4 days to get rid of everything.

Every time I was selling, donating, or disposing of a batch of items I felt less and less suffocated. I think I had so much trouble doing this over the past few months because I was so outcome-oriented with having my stuff out by a certain time, rather than just focusing on the process itself and letting the completion time happen when it happens.

Anyway, I don't have to go back to my town anymore. Everything I own (except my bed in Austin) fits in my car, and I still have plenty of things I am going to get rid of here in Austin that I couldn't in my old town. I actually felt a sense of discomfort a few hours before I was going to drive back to Austin. Like I don't have a "home base" anymore, I'm officially a nomad. But it was a good feeling because I realized I don't need comfort in my life.

Nightgame
So I had a period where I was really not doing much nightgame at all. I felt that despite getting over my core anxiety, I genuinely didn't enjoy going out at night. I think the biggest thing that pissed me off about going out at night was talking to a seemingly receptive girl, only to get immediately cockblocked by the friends. Also, nightgame seems to expose my social unawareness more than day. And I didn't like having to have long random conversations with girls.

However, I realized my night macro volume is only around lifetime 200 approaches, vs daygame is around 800. And things like being cockblocked by friends is just mileage, *even* if the girl is receptive. I guess I hadn't truly internalized it for nightgame as much as daygame. I think I'll remember to cross-pollinate concepts I'm learning from daygame into nightgame more often to keep myself in check.

Anyway I went out for 2 night sessions with @lacroix and Troy. Low volume on both nights, I approached only 5 girls on each night and got 1 number on each day.

First girl I got a number from I shouldn't have gotten the number. She was really receptive to me initially but I got psyched out when she said "well it was nice meeting you!" after maybe 5 minutes so I just exchanged with her. I texted the next day what she did last night and said that I went home to drink wine with my friends. She responded to that with "it was so fun!" but then ghosted when I invited her out for drinks.

Second number I got was after she said she was going to another place. I told her I'll go with y'all but she said that it was a "girls' night out". So I just grabbed the number haha.

Daygame
I did start going for instadates again before I left Austin, but my own limiting beliefs about instadates and logistics were really highlighted to me when I saw a guy in the daygame chat living in SF have some instadate+pull+smashes from driving girls from the mall to his place 5 minutes away. So there's no reason why I couldn't do it too. Now I'm regretting even more that I deliberately didn't ask for instadates in the first half of November.

Spammed all the contacts I have saved in my phone with "merry christmas! (tree emoji)". I did this over Thanksgiving too. I have 46 contacts right now, and 5 responded. Out of those 5 who responded, 3 of them subsequently ghosted when I asked e.g. what they did over christmas, if they're in Austin, what they're up to this week. The other 2 deferred (out of town). So basically all of my leads are dead now lol.

Sunday 11/26:
~20 approaches, 0 ID, 3 numbers over 2-3 hours

First sesh in 2 weeks.

Shopping street had mostly just families and cute girls with their boyfriends. I think I only approached 2 or 3 solo girls. Actually I now dislike when there are no solo girls because I can't instadate them and I can only just go for the number. Or maybe that's a limiting belief. I haven't even genuinely tried it.

Regarding non-approach AA, I did actually skip out on the first duo I wanted to approach. 30 seconds later I'm like wtf I need to approach them, but they already vanished. I was so pissed about blowing my approach window that my confidence basically shot back up to where it was before I left Austin in an instant. So I am feeling that confidence reversal from non-approach is much slower now at around 800 or so lifetime approaches.

Compare this to my previous 2-week hiatuses at ~100: viewtopic.php?p=21304#p21304 and at ~400: viewtopic.php?p=23546#p23546 . At lifetime ~100 approaches + 2 week hiatus, it took me one day of non-approach and a day of mousy approaches to get back up to my baseline. At ~400, it took me a day of being "nervous" and missing out on half of the girls I wanted to talk to to get back up. Now at ~800 it literally took me missing one approach to get back up. So I can confirm that raw approach volume builds confidence rather than outcomes.

OLD
I actually do OLD here and there but I rarely log about it. From my limited exposure to it over the past month or so, OLD seems to be good for forcing me to improve my texting. Unlike approach where I can get volume, I don't get a lot of likes on Tinder so I can't get away with firehose spamming a template to every girl. I probably get 0-5 likes every time I boost and random likes at other times. I've been having more deregulated and unstructured text conversations similar to an approach with girls on Tinder, with some help from @Rags2Bitches . This seems to get girls to respond more often I've noticed.

I'm logging about this now because I matched with a girl yesterday and we had been talking for a couple hours on Tinder. I went for the number but she said she'd rather do snap. I decided to play along and add her on snapchat, and now we've been messaging on snapchat for a few hours today. My mindset here has been treating texting this girl as part of a date, rather than just jumping to invite her out.

Now I'm thinking of figuring out how I can experiment with this non-soup style from cold approach leads. Like transferring some of what I'd initially talk about on a date over text, and see if my contact->date conversions increase. It's similar to how I stopped having hyper short 20-30 second approaches and switched to 2-3 minute conversations and it improved my approach->date conversions. But I'm still extra soupy over text so it might make sense to experiment with being more organic and less soupy with numbers from cold approach, given that I've gotten ghosted less often on OLD being organic.

I've said several times in my log that approach itself is self-therapy. So here we go with the next issue that I've discovered from approach.

I did a couple of daygame sessions last week but they were all pretty half-assed. I don't remember most of them exactly but they were like maybe 5-7 approaches each. I also did some nightgame sessions, probably 5-10 approaches when I did go out each time.

I had another instadate the other day. We ate at some hipster health food place and paid for our own meals. Main detail about this instadate is she asked if I was gay . I flatly said no and then she said she wasn't looking for a boyfriend, which I didn't respond to. She talked for 75% of the instadate and then I made a half-assed attempt at having her come with me to my street and chilling. I could have pushed more but I let her comment about whether I was gay get to me too much.

Later that night, one of Troy's friends matched with some chick on Bumble and they were going to meet that night. I was roaming the streets approaching when I heard some girl calling out to me from somewhere. I look up and see @lacroix with some chick. I go to the venue and meet them and we talk for a bit. The chick says she is here to meet some guy on Bumble. Turns out the guy she is going to meet was Troy's friend. lacroix manages to actually pull her to his place and kiss for a little bit but he doesn't get much farther as she keeps resisting with "I'm here to meet that other guy from Bumble", so he kicks her out eventually. Then she and Troy's friend end up meeting eventually.

I mention this story because this Bumble chick asked Troy and his friend if I was gay too . When I was told this, my immediate reaction was chucking my open Gatorade bottle in the air. 2 girls in 1 day called me gay???? wtf???? Troy probed a bit further to the girl about it, and she was just like "I don't know! like his voice and vibe!", and not much beyond that.

Coming off as "gay" isn't a total surprise to me. I've heard it at various points in my life. @Rags2Bitches and some of his friends also told me recently the same, mainly that I am acting way too eager. I also have some of the voice inflections that gay guys have. I'm not sure how I picked it up, but I can tell you I was actively suppressed from doing anything "male" as a kid because of my hyper-religious mom. She refused to let me play baseball on a team as a kid because it would get in the way of church, blocked me from looking at any TV shows with swords/"violence", always talked about how evil karate and other martial arts were. She even didn't allow me to play Pokemon because it has the suffix "mon" in it which means "monster" and monsters mean Satan. Additionally, most of my socialization from childhood was from my mom's friends, who were older women and I don't remember having any male role models or being around a lot of other guys as a kid.

Additionally, I'm naturally attracted to girly/feminine energy. I like pretty girly music, anime girls, and some of my style choices recently ended up being sort of girly. The types of chicks I'm into are super cute Asian girls. I'm not drawn to most "masculine" things in general. Initially, I was like "how is this gay? I literally like girls and feminine things." I don't think I'm wrong with asking that question, but the problem is that girls aren't gay either. Most girls aren't going to be attracted to someone who expresses a bunch of feminine energy and has girly interests. I could probably get away with liking these things rather than being some meathead who likes to watch college football if I had more outwardly masculine traits to counterbalance it, but I don't right now.

I didn't think "acting gay" was that big of a dealbreaker . Like I knew enough about myself to be aware of the above, but I really didn't think it was some huge deal. Actually, I was really pissed about it over the past few days. Like that's why I'm not getting girls? Really? I'm too gay ? But if it really is so, then it's something I have to deal with.

It seems that this "acting gay" issue isn't some deep internal problem, rather it's just a surface-level technical issue that I can fix. The most obvious things I can think of doing are getting some kind of voice coaching and joining a combat sport. For voice coaching, I've done some internet searching but the most I've found is "female to male trans voice masculinization". I wonder if that would help me, despite not being an FTM trans person. If anyone here has done voice coaching, let me know some recommendations.

I'm really open to any suggestions people might have about this because I'd really like to fix as much as possible about it before school starts on January 17, when I'll have real cold approach volume again.

KillYourInnerLoser wrote: ↑

Tue 2022-01-04 08:56

Ask yourself this: "Why do I care so much if a couple people think I'm gay?"

This isn't a matter of "caring whether people think I'm gay". I've mentioned the above about my outward demeanor as something I've known for a long time, and that I didn't really care/think was a big dealbreaker at all.

The degree in which I outwardly act "gay" is high enough that it actually takes a toll on my results with women. It's analogous to being fat or not knowing how to dress. Yeah of course you can get some results without hitting the gym or improving your style, but you can't deny it helps with those.

My post was mainly to highlight that now it's something I'm aware of that I should work on, asking about ways I can learn to "act less gay", and steps of action I can take towards improving this.

I'm going to leave Austin this week. The university delayed school by 2 weeks due to homocron, and that means they'll probably just indefinitely delay it. And even if they don't, I'm feeling tired of Austin already and I don't like approaching at the shopping districts much (inconsistent volume, fewer girls my type, group sets so not IDable, etc). I've already been on a bit of an action hiatus and don't want to wait much longer.

I have some plans but rather than revealing them here and getting some kind of validation for having a plan, I'll post about it as it unfolds.

Daygame
Saturday 01/09
0#/11 in ~1h

Sunday 01/10
0#/7 in ~45m

My volume has been pretty abysmal so far this year (I've probably only done <30 approaches including my sessions above). I've noticed my approaches have become quite awkward as a result. Usually when I go out to approach, it takes me like 5-10 approaches to "get in the zone" and clear out any lingering anxiety with social interaction, but combined with low volume and not going out of my way to approach recently, my "sessions" this weekend were quite awkward.

Online
Been messaging some matches (like 3-4) but haven't gotten anyone to meet up. I've been trying to figure out what kind of conversational style to do rather than just using a template. Main reason is I've gotten some girls to actually talk for a bit, but so far I've gotten ghosted when I inquire her schedule/meeting up.
I've also been taking photos with @lacroix . We've probably taken 300+ photos each of each other.
I've also discovered the value of online dating is that it's a good supplement for when you can't get cold approach volume. You have a bit more freedom of location if you can set up a good online dating profile, versus cold approach which depends on living in a place where you can consistently meet lots of girls in person somehow.

Drove into Phoenix Tuesday night and staying at AirBNB. I'm leaving Sunday. Reason I came here is because some guys from another group planned a gamecation over the weekend, and I saw it as a great opportunity to try to relive my Nashville week back in late September, since I have nothing to lose. Don't expect any action from me after this week though, going to see my parents again in California after Phoenix, since I haven't been over there in nearly 2 years. I have a bunch of plans to figure out what exactly I'm doing next which I'll focus on there and try to catch up on work a bunch for a bit since dating has eaten a lot into my life over the past 5 months and I haven't exactly figured out yet how to balance everything yet. Hopefully it'll be 2 or 3 weeks tops and I'll be back sometime in February logging again once I get my plans sorted out and in action.

Took 2 tabs of ecstasy in the morning. I tried it for the first time on Saturday night and realized it's the best drug ever. I don't feel any sort of "high" or disassociation/stimulation, it's just normal. But after maybe an hour my brain somehow goes into overdrive and I can drill extremely deep and quickly into pretty much anything I can think of.

Switch flipped from resentment to gratitude towards my mom
Not relevant to dating, but relevant to my self-improvement journey. Skip this section if you're not interested.

For some reason, I spent about 2-3 hours thinking about feelings of resentment towards my hyper-religious and dogmatic mom. I won't go into too much detail of the specifics as I believe it's irrelevant to my log and it's also public, but I'll talk about the relevant parts of the situation with respect to my own self-improvement journey. I ran away from my mom's house when I was 16 and basically never spoke to her for about 8 years, other than visiting her maybe 3 times out of obligation, and I basically avoided talking to her as much as possible and always was miserable when I did visit. In that time period, my mom would incessantly spam my phone with texts and I'd ignore most of it or give short answers, and I ignored literally every call from her since she used to spam call me as well. Actually, with my realizations this morning, I have a pellucid awareness of how cruel I was, but I didn't realize it during that time frame. Anyway, around summer of 2021, I realized closing off all contact with my mom meant I just shut the door of trying to work out my own personal issues so I had a serious talk with her for the first time since probably 2012 and was able to set some boundaries of "you stop spamming my phone incessantly, but I'll make sure to call you every weekend and we can have short chats". Been doing that every weekend since then, usually calls are around 20-90mins. Also, I had a latent and kind of crude awareness that her intentions were good when raising me, but she just didn't do it correctly. Had no idea why though up until this morning.

I used to think my mom just saw me as this abstract idea of a "son" and raised me accordingly, without actually trying to understand the kind of person I am and adapting her parental strategy accordingly. The realization was basically I straight up didn't realize how fundamentally different I am from my mom. Since I had no awareness of that as a kid, I never even telegraphed that knowledge upon her and how she could have adjusted. Basically, given that fact, it was impossible for my mom to adapt to me, due to no particular fault of her own, rather it was just a totally bad roll of the dice between us. Realizing that, and also knowing that she did have good intentions and in no way did I ever view her as evil, all of my resentment vanished towards my mom and the only thing that remained was gratitude. Told my mom I loved her for the first time in my life and actually meant it.

Daygame
60+ approaches over 4 hours. 1 instadate, 1 same night date, 0 pull. 15 contacts including a LINE and snapchat.

Felt really good immediately into start of session because of above long story about my viewpoint of my mom. Thought I would have a bunch of latent anxiety from doing jack shit over this year so far and would need 5-10 approaches to "warm up" but somehow I didn't.

Actually to be honest I have no idea how many approaches I did even within a 10 range. I kind of made up this figure from guessing that I think I approached at a slower rate than I did in Nashville (usually 20-35ish/hr) but faster than Austin (10ish/hr). My primary focus of the session was literally trying to get an instadate, rather than purely "number of approaches". Approach count almost doesn't even matter if you can go up to any girl you please, so I just approached whomever, tried to get the ID, and then maybe went for the exchange if I thought the girl was super hot or I liked her personality (lol gaaaaaaay) and then approached another girl. I walked away without asking for exchanges from most girls if I felt they were being lame in our chat but somehow still got a massive positive exchange tilt anyway, thought I had maybe 6 or 7 contacts tops during the session.

Also ended up evolving a new behavior with regards to being hyper-pushy, without having it be some big event where I spam the girl repeatedly with pushes like I did in Nashville (though I had my priorities inverted there. asked instadate maybe once or twice tops and then pushed for contact robotically). Current strategy is something along the lines of if a girl declines the instadate, maybe push once or twice more depending on what the girl responds with, and then continue talking for a bit and make small talk, then bring up the idea again after a little while and repeat. I think I did this on nearly every approach where I wasn’t instantly deflected. Rather than “spam pushiness”, it’s more like just sprinkling them throughout the conversation. Very fun and you can get creative based on the context of the conversation, plus it’s a great unlock for getting past occasional moments where you perhaps “blank out” during the conversation, because you can just throw in another push and you automatically figure out what you might say next concurrently, or based on the girl’s response to that.

Asked girls what they were up to and if they immediately had class went for exchange (usually without pushing). Told some girls my type to skip class and come get boba tea and pushed that a few times when I felt like it. Otherwise, I probably pushed most girls on average 3-5x for an instadate before getting bored and walking away without saying anything. Some girls I pushed at least 8x if they didn’t seem lame as fuck and then went for exchange. Hardly pushed any exchanges because it’s like, okay if you’re going to decline the instadate repeatedly *and* also decline my exchange, then you’re just lame, see ya.

Had one girl who was super super duper short (maybe 4’9” or something) decline my instadate request repeatedly over a couple minutes of conversation with “I have homework”, but she was so short I really wanted her, even though she seemed kind of lame. Transitioned into asking if she knew of any other good cafes other than boba tea place and she said there’s a Starbucks nearby. She told me she could show me where it was, initially I pushed again and said yeah okay we can grab a drink there, declined again and was about to walk off but decided to roll with “okay just show me where it is”. We walked for maybe 3-4ish minutes and had a chat, then we arrived at the Starbucks. Tell her she needs the coffee because she’s going to do homework, only 10 mins etc. Keeps declining. Some random guy walks out of Starbucks and asks us where the nearest bathroom is. I just tell him to go that way towards some random building and say most class buildings have bathrooms, even though I have no fucking clue what I’m talking about and he runs off. Pushed girl maybe a few more times and then walked off without saying anything cuz her lameness finally surpassed her shortness.

I decided to take a girl's snap for the first time because I just want to start experimenting with it. I know it goes against most dating advice I've seen here, but I want my own data. Will only take snapchats from girls who don't somehow seem totally lame to me but refuse to exchange phone numbers for whatever reason. I'm curious as to whether girls age 18-22ish see snapchat (and perhaps even instagram?) as their standard chat platform rather than phone numbers (similar to how Japan tends to use LINE and China uses WeChat). But I still usually decline snaps and don't bother exchanging anything with most girls, so it'll be rare and only when I sense the girl isn't acting lame as fuck. This snapchat in particular didn't ghost me on first message so we'll see where that goes.

Dates
Instadate
Got an instadate on my 4th approach somehow. Girl told me she was up to nothing, but then while we were walking to taco place she was saying she had a class in an hour. I was actually hungry and wanted to eat tacos so I didn’t cancel the instadate. I bought tacos, girl bought nothing. Girl had really cute and feminine personality but she would not stop talking lol. Went for pull a few times after I finished tacos in maybe 10-15 minutes. Basically told her to skip class, and she should be spontaneous, etc but wouldn’t budge. This is a highly unlikely scenario and likely a waste of time, but it’s what I ended up trying anyway since I only agreed to the instadate because I just wanted a quick bite myself. I told her we should meet after her class and she agreed, though I texted her 2ish hours later and didn’t respond. Then she responded at like 9:30pm lol.

Same night date
Approached Asian chick with a mask but didn’t look ultra ultra my type or anything. Seemed pretty unreceptive and weird about my approach. She also kind of looked sick or something actually for some reason. Asked her about it and she was just like “uh, I don’t speak English” and was about to accelerate away. Recognized her Japanese accent in how she said ingurisshu, so I immediately switched to Japanese. 3rd lifetime Japanese approach lol. Immediately her face lit up and started being super chatty. Decided to actually talk with this girl for like 6 minutes or so for whatever reason before going for ID again but in Japanese this time. Told me she just got back from Japan and was waiting for her luggage from her mom. Pushed her to come with me anyway maybe 2-3x but she wouldn’t budge. Then I said, how about we meet later after you get your luggage. Actually I don’t remember if she or I suggested exchanging, but we exchanged LINEs. Hit her up maybe 2 hours later, she told me she was still waiting, so I just told her to let me know when it does come. I sent that message with the expectation that she wouldn’t respond later and I wasn’t planning on texting her for the rest of the day after.

But she ended up shooting me a message 2 hours after that around 8:00pm that her luggage arrived. So I told her “ok, let’s go for boba” and she said ok. I skated over to the boba tea cafe and arrived before she did. Ordered my drink and sat down. She arrived maybe 5-10 minutes later and waved at me. Waited for her at the table while she waited in line for a bit and ordered her own boba and she sat down.

She took off her mask and I was like wtf????? She was actually way cuter than I thought. I actually literally told her (in Japanese btw, so just guesstimating what I actually said), “Wow, you’re really cute without your mask” and she giggled. Decided to be like “I literally wasn’t sure if you would be cuter or uglier without the mask and I couldn’t tell when I saw you but I decided to approach you anyway.” She laughed at that and I was just like “you gotta take risks in life sometimes, you know”.

Conversation was 50/50 Japanese and English and also weird Japlish hybrid at some points. My Japanese is rusty because I never use it. I occasionally spoke in English when she randomly spoke in English, and then randomly switched back to Japanese. She was really bubbly and energetic on the date. Went for music pull after 15-20 minutes, but she declined with “I have to do homework omg it’s so much blah blah” “just do it later we’ll hang out for 30 minutes and I have to do work after” etc. Kept the convo going for a while in between random pull attempts based on the conversation, and probably tried over 15+ times over 45 minutes or so.

She was like “I installed HelloTalk after you told me about it earlier today” and we talked about that for a bit. Told her I knew how to use the app so you can get to a basic conversational level in around 6ish months. She’s like “omg teach me!!!!!” But rather than telling her how to use it there, I used it as another opportunity to pull with “I’ll show you at my place” “omg no I can’t show me right here” “no it’s a secret unless you come with me” etc.

Also attempted to pull to her place like “Let’s go to your place. I’ll help you with your English homework that you have”. She declined that because she has a roommate living literally in the same bedroom as she does, so I guess that wouldn’t work. Then said “well how about you do your English hw at my place” “I don’t have my backpack” “we can walk over to your place and grab your backpack and then head over to mine” etc, but declined that as well.

At some point, don’t know who suggested it first but the idea of meeting up later again this week popped up. Told her she should meet me directly at my Airbnb, and she agreed. I probed her week and she said she’s free Friday afternoon, so I sent her my address and then I ended the date with “I have some work to do”.

She immediately put her mask back up as she was getting up out of her chair so I didn’t try to go for a kiss. Happened to be in same direction for a couple blocks so we talked and then hugged goodbye. So let’s see if she actually meets up on Friday.

Ed_ wrote: ↑

Fri 2022-01-14 12:47

colgate wrote: ↑

Thu 2022-01-13 23:36

Otherwise, I probably pushed most girls on average 3-5x for an instadate before getting bored and walking away without saying anything. Some girls I pushed at least 8x if they didn’t seem lame as fuck and then went for exchange. Hardly pushed any exchanges because it’s like, okay if you’re going to decline the instadate repeatedly *and* also decline my exchange, then you’re just lame, see ya

I see you mention this "pushing" a lot. Maybe it's just my experience, but almost all the sex I've had had required very little "pushing" to overcome resistance from the women I've been with. At most, if a girl rejects my invitation back to my place, then I bounce to another venue and try again. After a second rejection I end the date.

Maybe I'm missing out on tons of sex that I could be getting if I pushed my rejections harder, but it doesn't feel like it.

I don't remember reading anything from GLL or Andy that says "not enough pushing" is the reason a guy isn't getting laid. In fact it feels like the opposite, I know Andy has mentioned this article before:

Let me ask again: Why would you ever be excited to be with someone who is not excited to be with you? If they’re not happy with you now, what makes you think they’ll be happy to be with you later? Why do you make an effort to convince someone to date you when they make no effort to convince you?

https://markmanson.net/fuck-yes

I elucidated on what "pushing" entailed in my previous log. Also it ends up being on the same line of reasoning as "solving the girl's problem" as @KillYourInnerLoser has mentioned on his podcast, since it's not necessarily spamming, rather assuming the girl wants to continue the interaction and trying to veer the trajectory of the interaction in that direction. At least in my head anyway, but it's the first time I've really done this style.

Also, I've realized the same as you about "fuck yes or no", which is why I stopped taking a lot of contacts and walking away from girls who seemed like they didn't want to meet again at all (lots of excuses, etc).

Yeah, by all means maybe what I'm doing right now is actually not even worth the effort, but I've found few "fuck yes" girls so far. Also I've often seen girls initially act "fuck yes" and then devolve down to uhhh...idk...i can't....etc (so basically no). I have a lot of conflicting data points on not "pushing" past 2x because pushing past 2x implies unreceptiveness. Certainly the percentage of girls who would actually convert over from hyper-pushiness is quite low, but it's certainly not zero. And I don't feel I have anything to lose with the girl so I haven't found a reason not to experiment with this. I think the best example of the more "pushy" style actually working on the forums is @Manganiello 's cold approach lay in Toronto.

The general trend I have observed is that guys who say don't bother with trying to be pushy and just focus on finding the "fuck yes" girls tend to have an abundance of the "fuck yes" girls. So of course it makes sense not to waste your time with being pushy. On the other hand, I've seen other guys convert quite a bit from being pushy, far more than I am. Given these data points, you could theoretically optimize in both directions for results (in other words, figure out how to increase the amount of girls you meet to say "fuck yes" to you and be sufficiently pushy with girls whom you perceive as "on the fence").

But that begs the question, how do you increase the percentage of "fuck yes" girls towards you? I'm genuinely curious and would like to know.

EDIT:
Read the Mark Manson article you've linked since it answers my question. Yeah, it's definitely self-improvement. I'm pretty aware of that also. Not saying this from any kind of adversarial point of view, as I've identified many things I need to work on about myself outside of specifically dating which would improve my dating. I think I tend to talk about those often on my log here. It's also something Troy and I have talked about at length in Austin. I have a bucket list of things I need to work on and much more to think about regarding myself and turning into a guy more girls my type want to date (haven't written logs about it here yet, probably will in the future). But thanks for reminding me about it again so I keep it in mind.

Manganiello wrote: ↑

Sat 2022-01-15 07:43

Like what?
I know bulking is one of them.

Going to pull a Chris from GLL and just stream-of-consciousness list anything I can think of over a couple minutes in rapid-fire succession like he did here: https://www.goodlookingloser.com/laid/i ... our-demons

Bulking, having a structured routine, working on being socially aware + developing better empathy, not being overly eager, having a more masculine way of speaking, being someone who can defend myself and others, having a sexual vibe, competition anxiety, staying engaged in a process

Won't go into too much detail on any of these specifically yet because they usually end up unfolding as my life progresses, and I'm not a fan of "listing all my goals out" ahead of time because it's never really worked for me.

Main thing I need to focus on after this week is putting myself in the right environment to continue my self-improvement/dating progress over a more sustained period of time instead of just darting around the country (I've moved twice in the past 4 months), and I've realized that destroys any sense of basic structure for self-improvement, since it involves getting there + settling down + setting up your life again. If I were to have been in Nashville still up until this point with an unburnable college campus (or other place with high approach volume) I probably would have had much faster progress than I have had so far. Back in Nashville I was doing great with the gym+bulking too because I had it down to a routine. Moment I left Nashville that basically fell apart, and by the time I got back into it, I decided to move again (hence why my bulking log has been dormant again).